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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is unfair on my friend's daughter?

172 replies

definetlynotbored · 04/10/2016 15:46

My friends and I go to a spa for one day every week. It's run by the local college so the staff are trainees and it costs practically nothing to use the facilities and get treatments done. We love it. We go until 3pm as we have our children in nursery and/or school during those hours.
A woman I knew through mutual friends asked if she could come along as she's not met any friends yet. This has been something we've done for almost two years now. So she turned up with her Daughter and the spa staff explained they have a strict policy regarding children and she cannot bring her in. We suggested she put her Daughter in nursery so that next time she can come along for a few hours when her daughter isn't there. She gets 15 hours free so could rearrange her days to have one day longer childfree.That particular day we did something child friendly as we realised she wasn't aware of the spa's child policy.

Anyway for months now she has arrived at 10am for the spa day and brought her Daughter and kept her daughter in the pram in the reception/cafe area until 3pm. She then goes for a meal with us all. She wont let her Daughter out of the pram at all during that time as she says she plays up when she's out of the pram and not at home. She gives her an ipad and snacks to keep her occupied.

This is the only day we can do the spa day or else we would try a different day.

If she wants to sit in the reception area for hours it's none of my business, but I just feel so sorry for her Daughter. My Son would never ever stay in a pram that long and her Daughter is so bored. She whines constantly and asks to come out of the pram. She then has to stay in the pram further while we walk to the cafe/pick our children up. We then have our dinner (we all make an effort to play with her once we are out) and our children are there then. The day ends around 5pm.

We all work so this is the only day we have, to do something together as we make sure we have one day a week alone with our children/families. We don't feel we need to stop having the spa day, just because she can't go as we have been doing it for years and she does not have to come along. She could come for the meal afterwards instead. I also invited her specifically to the Spa day not anything else so I did explain what we did each day.

I'm not sure why she chooses to come along. She doesn't get to chat to anyone for those few hours and there's no little play area for her daughter there. We brought come toys for her Daughter to play with but she is never allowed out of the pram and we never saw the toys again.

AIBU to think 5 hours is too long for a 3 year old to be sat in a pram in a reception area/cafe?

OP posts:
WiIdfire · 04/10/2016 16:44

I think this is actually neglectful. Choosing to leave your daughter strapped in a pushchair for 5 hours for no reason, with no physical stimulation, no social interaction, this is not acceptable. It raises the question of how she interacts with her daughter the rest of the week as well.
Yes its fine as a one off - long plane journey, hospital appointment, even a shopping trip (although at least they have things to look at) but to do it voluntarily regularly for no reason?
This may not raise interest from social services, but she definitely needs support from a health visitor or family services or similar, and the daughter would benefit from making use of her free nursery hours for sure.

Original poster
definetlynotbored · 04/10/2016 16:51

She has the free hours from nursery for three days a week but they are not the day we go to the spa. She says (and I believe her) that they were only able to offer her those days.

The other days she has her in the house and at least she gets stimulation from her nursery hours.

We can't go any other day to the Spa. I work full time but not the usual mon-fri week and others also work odd days so this was the only day the established group of us could do.

OP posts:
PrivatePike · 04/10/2016 16:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lorelei76 · 04/10/2016 16:55

I don't get it
Out of the day, how much time does she spend talking to any of you between 10 and 3?

Itisnotwhatyouknow · 04/10/2016 16:55

She sounds like she isn't coping on some level. What does she do with her daughter the other days of the week?

I used to know a lady who put her toddler in bed for a nap quite early in the morning even though the toddler would take several hours to fall asleep. She then slept for several hours and once awake the mum wouldn't go to her for about an hour. The toddler was of a calm disposition but I really think the mum was just avoiding parenting.

The OP's scenario reminds me of this.

honkinghaddock · 04/10/2016 16:59

Does the 3 year old not try to get out of the pram? A child that age in it for that length of time and not fighting it is concerning.

snakesalive · 04/10/2016 17:07

Why on earth does the spar allow this?.. phone up and complain,or email ,so they won't know it's you..that may make them think its not on....what if there was an accident..I bet they are not insured for babies

OlennasWimple · 04/10/2016 17:08

Exactly, honking - suggests the girl is well used to just sitting there, and probably means that she has learnt that even if she makes a fuss she will be ignored Sad

snakesalive · 04/10/2016 17:12

And there will be more ,and more of this....every children's centre near me has closed...I had two to go to with my ds4.. one session a day...Friday swimming....now nothing..thankgod my kids are in school or I would go stir crazy with no children's centres

Florathefern · 04/10/2016 17:14

What a strange situation. It must be hard to watch a three year old in a stationary buggy for five hours. I take her point about people going on days out/shopping etc with a child in the buggy but the buggy is moving and hopefully more stimulating and interesting for the child. However it must be equally boring for the mother to sit in a cafe for five hours trying to entertain a small child. It would be my idea of hell.

I wonder if somebody could suggest meeting her on another weekday for a playdate in the park rather than meeting in the spa when she can't participate. That way they would both get the pleasure of other people's company?

toptoe · 04/10/2016 17:17

I think it's odd she thinks it's ok for a group of social workers to know she keeps her dd in a buggy unable to walk about for 5 hours. And to brush aside any concerns you may have. It could be a cry for help. The cafe staff must be beside themselves wondering what to do about it. I think having that lack of mobility at 3 is neglect.

Flumpnugget · 04/10/2016 17:18

If the 3yo has been at playgroup/toddlers/nursery the day prior to the "all day sitting in the cafe" day, sitting in a pushchair with an iPad may be no different (in the Mums opinion) than sitting at home on the sofa with an iPad (which maybe she is used to doing).

My 3 yo is a real fixated player as in once he starts a game, he can play for hours unless interrupted, and is quite content in doing so- maybe this LO has a similar calm, chilled temperament and she has no reason to worry that her DD is not getting the right stimulation / is bored / upset / angry etc- and due to that, she as the Mum, is happier in herself being out of the house and waiting for her friends for some socialising?

My middle DC was out of a buggy at 18 months and had to be played with and given attention constantly- no coffee shops or relaxed afternoons at home.

If somebody does challenge her on this, it sounds as if you have all been gossiping about her behind her back and I imagine she may find that difficult to take and still be part of the group, when clearly she is lonely (as you have stated ). This day out might be keeping her sane. It might not be deemed as the right thing to do by others standards, but maybe, just maybe, this day is the absolute highlight of her week and she has made a decision based on that.

Unless you know absolutely and for sure that this is how the toddler spends most of her days (being ignored, left to her own devices, strapped in to a buggy or car seat or what have you) and you are genuinely concerned for her well being, it might be worth considering a different approach than judging her for what she's currently doing to try and stay a part of your group.

Brankolium · 04/10/2016 17:20

Perhaps she's hoping that if she keeps sitting in the cafe then at some point you'll all decide to do something child friendly with her instead of the spa.

I wonder what would happen if you chose a different activity (also not suitable for children) one week, and said to her that you'd meet for the meal as usual. Would she do the 5 hour cafe stint or would she follow you to the new event?

It's all rather sad (for the girl). Could you suggest her coming for the last hour only and you all getting out a smidge earlier than usual? I guess she wouldn't go for that though.

It's very odd though, and not remotely fair on her daughter.

Original poster
definetlynotbored · 04/10/2016 17:21

I think it's odd she thinks it's ok for a group of social workers to know she keeps her dd in a buggy unable to walk about for 5 hours. And to brush aside any concerns you may have. It could be a cry for help. The cafe staff must be beside themselves wondering what to do about it. I think having that lack of mobility at 3 is neglect*

Honestly, I don't think she thinks there's anything wrong with it. She probably knows it's better to be out playing with her. But at the same time she wouldn't consider she was doing anything actively wrong.

OP posts:
a7mints · 04/10/2016 17:22

I don't think playing on an ipad for a few hours is neglect! in fact I think it would be many DCs idea of heaven!!
I am more concerned for themum who seems isolated and sad. Does ahe live in B&B where she has to be out during the daytime,I wonder?

toptoe · 04/10/2016 17:23

Can't you just tell her straight? We all pussy foot around this stuff so much. Ask her straight 'Why are you doing this? Do you need my help with something?' she might want you to be frank with her. If not, she'll realise people notice when you do odd things to dc in public. Has the dd gone introverted? What's her communication like?

Original poster
definetlynotbored · 04/10/2016 17:23

Flumpnugget This is what I've thought for a long time. I would never let my Son on the ipad for 5 hours but it's not in itself terrible. But her Daughter does moan after about 2 hours and wants to get out, so she isn't actually completely content with being in the buggy. If we said we were doing something else she would follow.

I think she's just so excited to be part of a girlie group. From what I can tell she has never had a single friend in her entire life.

OP posts:
Original poster
definetlynotbored · 04/10/2016 17:26

If her Daughter seemed happy in the buggy it wouldn't be an issue. But she's not. She is bored

Her Daughter is very nasty to other Children. Everything is her's she does not share. She looks for attention a lot. She is shy at first but then overly friendly once she knows someone.

OP posts:
toptoe · 04/10/2016 17:27

It's not a few hours. It's 5 hours of sitting in one position with no being able to get out and play with physical stuff. I suppose this is where the problem lies. Some think it's neglectful to neglect a child's physical needs, others think it's good enough as long as they are fed and watered and safe.

It might be a bit of a grey area. I just think if I was cafe staff and saw her sitting there for 5 hours I would be worried about the child not being able to get out and about and why the mum thought this was ok as a weekly thing.

Flumpnugget · 04/10/2016 17:28

I just find it really sad. Maybe she genuinely doesn't know any better and is trying to work out social rules etc. It's of course sad for the toddler too.

Maybe the friend who introduced her to the group could take a couple of weeks off from the spa day and go out with her and her DD instead, and as that friendship develops, she can find a way to discuss with her more appropriate ways to fill her time when waiting for you all to finish?

trappedinsuburbia · 04/10/2016 17:28

I think I would be saying directly to her that it is in no way fair to have a child in a buggy for that length of time !!
My 3 yr old hasnt been in a buggy at ALL for about a year (and she's a tearaway)
Im really shocked at this and would have to say something to her.

itsmine · 04/10/2016 17:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

toptoe · 04/10/2016 17:31

Could be mum needs to be out and about because being at home is depressing her, so she comes out with dd. But it's a sign she's not coping with her dd imo if she is trying to do something that is not child friendly. I wonder if she needs some extra support from the lone parent angle.

Atenco · 04/10/2016 17:33

This is I think the first time I have thought that social services should be involved and then it turns out that the OP is a social worker and does not agree!

It definitely sounds like that is what she does with her child all the time and must be seriously damaging to the poor child. Sometimes in view of people and the rest of the time in the privacy of her own house.

GingerbreadLatteToGo · 04/10/2016 17:35

How completely bizarre. The poor child must be so bored & uncomfortable.

Though, I have to say, I can't believe that so many of you are social workers & none of you have the balls to deal with this. It might not get passed whatever as concerning offically, but for goodness sake as a human being you know this is wrong.

She needs help of some sort. It. Is. Not. Normal!