To not want my PIL to pay for my DC private school fees?

[swimmerforlife]

For context, I get along with DH's parents perfectly well, they are absolutely loaded though and DH (along with his siblings) were privately educated from reception onwards. I grew up on the breadline and was state educated for all my schooling.

It was always the plan for our dc to be state educated as we couldn't afford private fees, however the subject of schools came up in conversation over the weekend and PIL offered to pay for both DS1 and DS2 fees if we decided to go private (DS1 will be 4 early next year).

DH now desperately wants DS1 to be privately educated and is willing to accept PIL offer as he thrived in private school, whilst I am not totally against private schooling, I feel my DSs will learn and be educated just as well at state. After all I am University educated...

Also, I don't want to feel I / DH or the DSs 'owe' PIL anything because the paid for our DSs private education, I really don't want to have that hanging over our heads for the next 20+ years.

Besides, DH had no qualms with our DCs being state educated before PILs offer. Now DH has gone and changed his mind after everything was practically agreed.

AIBU?

Mary would you really subject kids already in full time school to tutoring for no reason except that there was money available? The school day is already too long for little ones without random tutoring on top! Surely tutoring is only appropriate for a child who actually needs extra help at a specific point in time?

I was lucky enough to be able to send my Dc private all three of them are badly dyslexic and had been all but written off in state school due to lack of funding in private they were nurtured and well supported had very small class sizes which was in valuable when I divorced my youngest was in year 7 my ex immediately pulled her out and we moved the other side of the country I spent a long time looking for a good state school she went to an excellent one due to school places we could only get her a place in year nine she coped admirably due to her excellent private education they supported her to the best of there ability but were always limited by funding she passed her gcse's with reasonable marks in state school I felt there was peer pressure on her not to be a 'swot' in private the culture of strong work ethic and doing everything to best of your ability was encouraged by both staff and peers and she has taken this attitude to work forward with her but having experienced both systems I would choose private in a heartbeat I myself was state educated my brother private there is no comparison in our levels of education and what we have achieved in our careers I know given the chance I would have done so much better in private but just my opinion op!

It hardly needs to be hours every day! Maths once a week during term time would be a start when kids are small, plus an extra curricular. More during the summer holidays--because that is when kids tend to slip back.

I'm surprised that that is considered controversialin my home town back in the UK, most of the parents I know start some tutoring and extra work during the primary school years, and the town in question is nowhere near London/SE. The kids mostly are not behind-their parents want them to get to a good level. In particular, it's considered normal to have your child do some studying during the summer break. I don't think this is excessive.

Of course, a private school might negate the need for tutoring. But they often have longer days and longer commutes--that gets tiring for the kids too. It's all swings and roundabouts.

Mary, yes but as a private school paying parent I would not accept that deal if I were the grandparent. I would want the money on the private school not on tutoring or else not paid at all. So I think they need to be careful how to put any suggestion of how the money is spent. (I have not tutored my privately educated children except one for a few months aged 7 when she was changing schools).

Anyway good luck whatever the decision. I agree with coribeth (and my children's father has worked in both state and private schools - in some state schools his job was policeman more than teacher he said although obviously it varies from state school to state school and some private schools arenm't good either. Choose carefully. Pick a private primary which is academically selective, perhaps the junior part of a leading private school to avoid the stress of too much 11+ competition and check which senior schools it feeds into and how many scholarships it wins each year at 11+ or 13+.

Me2017 what if your children aren't academic? Should they then go to state?

How do academically selective primary schools select which 4 year olds are good enough?

Does anyone ever admit their tiny child was rejected by their chosen academically selective primary? What do those parents do with their not academic enough small children? What do parents do if DC1 got into an academically selective primary and DC2 appears to be academically slightly below average at 4?

"in some state schools his job was policeman more than teacher he said although obviously it varies from state school to state school and some private schools arenm't good either"

This is the sort of statement that really pisses me off. Why do people always judge state schools by the worst possible examples and private schools by the best?

You are not unreasonable to want to stick to state education - but I suggest that you don't burn bridges.
Can you investigate the schools and show DH that the state options are good. My DCs are at a good state primary but I despair as I look at the options for year 7. Just now I wosh someone was offering to pay school fees for secondary.

Tutoring does not compensate for poor (or even average) schooling. I read a very recent and extremely well resourced meta analysis of the French school system that was published last week. Among many fascinating insights it made clear that, while tutoring in maths helped DC who would otherwise have struggled to pass comfortably through the hoops and acquire maths skills, tutoring actually impeded development of higher cognitive skills versus DC who performed less well in maths but on the strength of their own efforts.

Academically selective schools for 4 year olds are basically screening out children who it will be difficult to teach.

The kind of child they want would also do well in most reception classes. (As I suspect the OP knows having been to a state school, and, given age of child, probably more recently than some posters).

The majority of prep/private primary schools don't select by academic ability.

And the ones that claim to ... I have some reservations as to the efficacy.

That's not to say that you don't end up with a higher than average cohort ( by ability) of course.

This is the sort of statement that really pisses me off. Why do people always judge state schools by the worst possible examples and private schools by the best?

true but I have never heard a private school teacher moan about having to wear trousers as they get kicked, crowd control and all the rest!
A friend is qualifying as a teacher and works in a private school in china. The other teachers there love the school they say its a world away from the state schools they have worked in and all implore her to never teach in state! ( back in the UK)

Whilst you may prickle at the comments, this is a daily reality of many of our teachers day to day lives.

GetAHaircutCarl Thu 06-Oct-16 06:35:46

good post.

I also think aside from academic achievement and all the rest - it comes down to enjoyment and fun,
Which school, is your DC going to be able to maximize the fun of their childhood in?

I haven't read every post - I just wanted to write because I feel really strongly about this. Private schooling is an incredible opportunity for your sons. Whilst I understand you don't want to feel indebted to your in laws, if you have a good relationship with them then this might be more in your head than reality. I do not have a good relationship with my in laws, and I would be indebted to them, but I'd still snatch their hand off at this offer.
I would advise going to look around the private school(s) in your area and judge for yourself. Things to be aware of are the extra costs for uniforms, food, books and trips, potentially Saturday classes and what would happen monetary wise if your in laws were no longer around to pay for your sons education. We were worried my children would feel like the 'poor' children in a private school. We have gone down the state school route in the end as paying wasn't practical for my growing family, but I intend to get them tested at 11 and see if they can get scholarships.
You really need to think about your sons opportunities in life in private school vs state school. Maybe you are very lucky with your local state schools, but I really think there is no comparison.

"Whilst you may prickle at the comments, this is a daily reality of many of our teachers day to day lives."
Could you provide supporting evidence for the statement that many of our teachers feel more like policemen than teachers on a daily basis?

BertrandRussell I think we're on a losing streak here, I'd say over 90% of posters on this thread have the I'm alright Jack mentality when it comes to 'principles' and education!

The day someone kicks me is the day I leave! If the 25% of children local to me went to their catchment state school instead of a private school, all those state schools would be affected positively and my job would be easier.

bert a teacher saying that is theur experience is evidence.

However, if you won't accept lived experience as good enough then go and ask the unions. They will be more than happy to provide evidence of teachers not being supported by their SLT in terms of classroom discipline.

Of course you can't compare state and private schools in many areas- just think about the money spent.

I wish they would do a TV programme about an ordinary state school just getting on with its day to day life.

Actually I think many of the differences are not driven by money.

Watch Ken Robinson's TED talk on education. Puts it all in perspective....

IMO differences between schools are driven by the quality of the staff, and that tends to start with the senior management.

Obviously, humans being humans, virtuous circles apply in schools as they do elsewhere.

I went to a 'nice' private girl's school. I don't think the school were particularly supportive of teachers who had trouble with discipline. At least two teachers left while I was there because of nervous breakdowns caused by bullying from pupils. I remember several lessons where teachers were the target of deliberate, organised abuse, but I don't think the pupils were disciplined. Their parents were paying the fees, and from the point of view of the parents of the main instigators the teachers weren't up to scratch.

The voluntary nature of private schools means that for both pupils and teachers in private schools, you don't tend to stay if you don't fit in.

However, there are far fewer private schools than state schools and they vary enormously in ethos and character. You can't generalise.

"I'd say over 90% of posters on this thread have the I'm alright Jack mentality when it comes to 'principles' and education!"

No. Not me. My son. They are not his principles, they are mine. I won't be 'alright', he will be. Because that's my job. I do way more than my 'bit' to improve state education for all local children here, trust me.

I also find it difficult to believe that anyone would genuinely under absolutely no circumstances send their children to a private school.

I think if your child were being bullied horribly at a state school, was suffering from poor teaching/constantly changing teachers/supply teachers/bad behaviour from other children, you couldn't get him into another state school because they were all full and there was an excellent private school round the corner and you'd just won the lottery, your principles might become a bit more flexible.

I'm being extreme to make a point, obviously- the point being that I don't believe many principles are absolute. Most of them, for most people, could be compromised at some point in the right circumstances. Where that line is drawn will vary, of course. But for most people there is a line.

Actually I think many of the differences are not driven by money.

The main difference between a private school and a state school is that a state school is fulfilling a statutory obligation.

A private school is providing a service that customers may choose or not choose and the school is under no obligation to serve any particular customer.

Beyond that private schools don't have to have any thing in common whatsoever.

To some extent, if one or two teachers are having problems with discipline in a school (or even class) where other teachers aren't, there isn't always an awful lot the school can do to help. Sometimes teachers aren't at the right school for them.