It pains me to say so but I'm starting to think that we might actually make a success of Brexit

[WordYaGoBernadette]

AIBU?

Yes I know there is a topic for this but it's hidden away and mainly populated by Remain supporters and I'm interested in the views of everyone!

I still want to remain but, as the Labour Party has been woeful since the result thus providing no opposition, I'm starting to think it's inevitable.

So ... we're a very rich country. BMW and Audi (for example) aren't going to stand for Merkel and her chums slapping prohibitive tariffs on exporting their cars to GB. Likewise other European exporters.

So who thinks it's going to happen and GB will flourish outside the EU?

Worries me even.

"My point was that there is an upside to the that graph."

Of course there are those who benefit from every move in currency exchange rates.

The point you are spectacularly missing is that GBP is 15% devalued from where it was before Brexit referendum because UK's economic prospects are now much dimmer.

"We can't offer unlimited entry to the UK - pretty much everyone accepts that bar a few extreme left and extreme right libertarians. Given that, you have to draw the line somewhere - except the EU prevented us drawing any kind of line."

This is complete bullshit.

Living in the EU as a non-EU citizen, I have always had to go through the non-EU queue at UK customs, have my passport examined, give fingerprints (multiple), and fill out a landing card detailing my address in the UK, duration of stay, passport number, etc.

WTF more do you want? My first born?

Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters apparently.

This is complete bullshit.

No it isn't. I am talking about free movement for EU citizens. I'm not asking anything extra from non-EU citizens and I am very surprised you seem to have interpreted what I wrote in that way.

The fact is that the free movement rules have resulted in a lot of (EU) people arriving in the UK, and whilst we are members of the EU there is nothing we can do to form a policy to determine which people we actually want, because the EU says we can't choose.

The point you are spectacularly missing is that GBP is 15% devalued from where it was before Brexit referendum because UK's economic prospects are now much dimmer.

Not every economist shares your view of the reasons - there's a school of thought that the EU would like to devalue the Euro but daren't.

We've never offered unlimited access to the UK. It's an argument I have no interest in having with you because you'll just attribute any reasoned comments by telling me I'm on the far left.

Ha ha what a ridiculous response. Suit yourself. As you might imagine, I voted to Leave. I was very pleased to have been voting the same way as Dennis Skinner, who I agree with on almost everything.

By the way -

We've never offered unlimited access to the UK.

Was actually the point I was making.

FontSnob

I don't think The USA or Australia make us particularly unwelcome. People adopt culture from wherever they like. Of course I don't "think we have multicultrualism sorted" whatever that may mean. One of the interesting facets of all this is that my experience of France, for example, is that people there are much more openly chauvinistic and even racist - I don't know where this idea that we are all super jolly pals really comes from - the nations of Europe tolerate each other as much as they need and want to and membership of the EU or otherwise doesn't make a lot of difference to that.

Some leave voters that I spoke to after the vote claimed .......

A remain voted who swore at me for voting leave had no idea about the European Parliament, the Commission and the regular moves to Strasbourg.

But the point is - in or out - we can and have traveled and lived extensively in Europe since time began.

Not so much over the many, many years that Europe has been at war.

On the other hand we seem to have been able to trade with countries outside the EU while being in the EU.

You're missing the point - Merkel won't want to preside over anything that chokes off demand for these German products which are extraordinarily popular here (lord knows why but that's for another thread) - because that will threaten German jobs.

Germany (despite being in the EU) does export a lot, but exports only account for half of economic output and of this Germany sends 7% of their exports to the UK. I suspect Merkel is rather more concerned about the other 93%. Assuming the UK market falls by 50% (and prices would have to really rise significantly to stop people buying BMWs) I suspect they can cope with a 3.5% drop in exports by selling elsewhere.

On the other hand the UK is pretty reliant on the EU for imports. In a game of chicken, the U.K. Is not best placed.

I don't think we are heading for unmitigated disaster. The U.K. can sort this out. However it will have absolutely sod all to do with 'taking back control' and be despite rather than because of Brexit. Deals will be done, treaties will be signed and in 20 years UKIP or equivalent will still be complaining about foreigners and trying to sell unicorns. With luck though Prime ministers will be less gung-ho about referendums.

In the medium term some people will do worse, those who feel left behind will continue to feel left behind and alot of money will be spent rearranging the furniture.

Pretty much bang on merrymouse . Just saddened by the damn thing. My dd goes to an International School in France and several of her bac year friends have decided not to apply to the UK because of all the uncertainty - and a feeling they might not be welcome. Yes, it will all be resolved/fudged but it is already exacting a price.

Yes indeed what merrymouse said.

They thought that if you were travelling via an EU country, anyone was allowed in

That was an argument I heard again and again on MN. Various people explained again and again that we are not in Schengen and you have to show passports to get into the UK, except from Ireland. But it seems, not enough people listened.

Brexiters, I have a question for you. Why is the ability for a British citizen to work, study, or retire to an EU country something that you want to choke off? Simply to stop people coming here - so we need to stop our own citizens going there?

I am not in favour of complete free movement and I am not actually sure where it came from (Lisbon treaty?) because I'm sure back in the day you had three months to find a job or you had to leave. I have to say I can see why freedom of LABOUR should be a tenet of the EU but am unsure as to why freedom of movement should be completely unrestricted. The EU could have and should have agreed to some restrictions (similar to what the Swiss wanted as well) and I say that as a Remoaner of the highest order.

myfavouritecolour - I agree with you about the EU and placing some reasonable restrictions on free movement. I have the strongest suspicion that a few years down the line after the UK has exited, this is exactly what will happen. The bitter irony is that we had to leave for that to be a possibility.

Unlimited freedom of movement has caused some issues in other EU countries and once the UK is no longer a possible destination for EU workers, more will go to other EU countries Germany, France etc... so these countries may begin to appreciate a greater sense of pressure on the issue of EU immigration which parties like the Front National will exploit.

I'm so sure that this could happen that it makes me angry that we couldn't have received a little leeway on the issue and perhaps avoided Brexit.