It pains me to say so but I'm starting to think that we might actually make a success of Brexit

[WordYaGoBernadette]

AIBU?

Yes I know there is a topic for this but it's hidden away and mainly populated by Remain supporters and I'm interested in the views of everyone!

I still want to remain but, as the Labour Party has been woeful since the result thus providing no opposition, I'm starting to think it's inevitable.

So ... we're a very rich country. BMW and Audi (for example) aren't going to stand for Merkel and her chums slapping prohibitive tariffs on exporting their cars to GB. Likewise other European exporters.

So who thinks it's going to happen and GB will flourish outside the EU?

I thought Theresa May's speech about trying to 'subvert democracy' was bloody marvellous, by the way. I liked her anyway but she went up massively in my estimations after that. Whatever side of the argument you were/are on, there has to be something wrong with you if you refuse to see the absolute truth in what she said.

Bollocks. 'Something wrong with you'? What the hell does that mean?
Also, god forbid that remainers talk about the actual lies told by the leading figures before the referendum; with those figures now active in the cabinet, despite misleading the public. God forbid that we work to limit the effects of a 'hard brexit' on the British economy, just because May feels that she has to pander to the headbangers on her own back benches.
All the PM cares about is her own position; she's making all this policy up as she goes along. Suddenly Austerity targets, seemingly sacrosanct for half a decade, can be discarded for political ends. Stop trying to make her out to be some kind of towering Churchillian figure, instead of some chancer.

success? four of my friends and family have already been forced to emigrate to keep their jobs.. my son will also have to in a few years. so if by "success" you mean we will get used to investment being withdrawn from the uk, and intelligent people having to leave to pursue their careers, leaving us with all the remainders, yes, it is going to be a rip roaring success.

Cock in every GE and referendum since the dawn of time, one side or its supporters will accuse another side of 'lies.' This referendum was no different. In the end the onus is on the voter to do their research, go with their gut and to consider whether the the things they are being told by all parties have any credibility or not.

*Today 08:07 SlottedSpoon

Cock in every GE and referendum since the dawn of time, one side or its supporters will accuse another side of 'lies.' This referendum was no different. In the end the onus is on the voter to do their research, go with their gut and to consider whether the the things they are being told by all parties have any credibility or not.*

What an appallingly cynical view. I can see why you admire opportunists so much.

People have needed to emigrate to further their careers for a long time. Ever since I left uni in fact in the mid 00s.

In a GE you are voting for policies and to put people in power.

This was a vote on one particular issue with no clear policies and little information. Honestly, as with most government decisions, a lot of the relevant information was probably too boring/dense for most people to want to understand.

We had a referendum to stop conservatives voting for UKIP. There was no practical or intelligent reason to tackle this issue outside parliament, but here we are.

I agree with the PP who sais this is about more than politics. Economically, nobody knows how this will pan out. I'm not confident but I don't have a crystal ball.

What saddens me is that I will be bringing up my children in an environment that seems increasingly inward- looking. I find the rise of anti-foreigner rhetoric very concerning. Europeans are our neighbours and the EU is a huge part of modern Europe. I personally would prefer to work alongside our closest neighbours. For those who say things like " well, people managed to study abroad before" don't seem to be taking into account that the world has changed fundamentally since then. Saying that things were fine "before" doesn't mean they work in today's globalised world.

Sorry, my post should say more than economics, not politics.

So you think we should just believe everything every politician tells us as a straight-up gospel truth fact and not examine it from every angle in order to extract the actual element of truth and then take a view on the rest of the manipulative stuff we are told around it?

Okay then I'd rather be an appalling cynic that a naive fool. I would have thought where listening to politicians is concerned that anything less than a healthy dose of cynicism is rather unwise.

*Also, god forbid that remainers talk about the actual lies told by the leading figures before the referendum......All the PM cares about is her own position; she's making all this policy up as she goes along.....Stop trying to make her out to be some kind of towering Churchillian figure, instead of some chancer.'

Weirdly, you seem to be rather appallingly cynical yourself.

But i suppose you think that doesn't count.

People have needed to emigrate to further their careers for a long time. but this is specifically because of international companies withdrawing from investing in the uk because of brexit

I think there will undoubtedly be some business closures, job losses or enforced job moves as a result of Brexit.

I think there will also be some industries and areas of the economy that will benefit hugely from being out. And ultimately wages will rise here I think.

Swings and roundabouts.

This has hit our business very hard and don't see us staying in the UK unless Brexit is axed. Lose of jobs to the UK, but more secure elsewhere and good trade is good trade which the UK does not provide anymore. Tbh if enough of us think and act like this you will struggle with this Brexit.

I think the reason May has given March 2017 as the da, da, daaaa date is because nobody from EU is up for negotiating until article 50 has been triggered. Despite this, the government claim that they have been having lots of 'talks'- I want to know with who.

As we still don't know anything re effects, you are BU to think we will be fine. OP what is this based on?

So you think we should just believe everything every politician tells us as a straight-up gospel truth fact and not examine it from every angle in order to extract the actual element of truth and then take a view on the rest of the manipulative stuff we are told around it?

If people voting to Leave had another more reasoned, educated reason to vote Leave that wasn't being presented by the Leave campaign, they kept it very, very, very secret.

This morning sterling has fallen to its lowest level against the dollar since 1985.

oh merry it's just daft to say things like that. Whether a person's choice to vote either way were based on 'reason' and 'education' is entirely a matter of opinion.

No-one can ever quite comprehend that people who make decisions they wildly disagree with have used things like reason and education but it's simply unhelpful and untrue to assume that all Leave voters are neither reasoned nor educated nor capable of understanding what they were doing and why.

No it's not. All opinions are not equal. Some opinions are evidence based, some aren't.

I don't wildly disagree with leaving the EU. It's a bureaucratic organisation, not an issue like abortion or gun control.

I do however require argument to be backed up by evidence. I have seen a lot of arguments about EU armies, Turkey, 'sovereignty' and 'taking back control', but not much evidence or intelligent argument.

Project Fear said immediate and drastic consequences which have patently not materialised

Many financial institutions in particular lost a LOT of money when the exchange rates bombed.

The poor exchange rate is still causing issues for many companies who deal in import export.

Lots of large companies have frozen plans to expand and some are even downsizing.

Lots of our exports are financial and they can easily relocate. They are based here because we are a large stable and respected English speaking EU nation. That title will go to Ireland when we leave and unless terms are favourable to them they will go to Dublin.

I've seen a lot of smaller businesses already go to the wall because of the exchange rate bomb, they couldn't soak up the hits. I've also seen many freelancers now struggle for work as companies are freezing spending as they try to figure out what thehell is going on.

Lots of this isn't reported widely but I have a lot of contacts in business and the effect on the vast majority of them has already been felt. Press give no shits about small companies but they are the ones who go first in an economic crisis and I'm already seeing it.

Project Fear said immediate and drastic consequences which have patently not materialised

Many financial institutions in particular lost a LOT of money when the exchange rates bombed.

The poor exchange rate is still causing issues for many companies who deal in import export.

Lots of large companies have frozen plans to expand and some are even downsizing.

Lots of our exports are financial and they can easily relocate. They are based here because we are a large stable and respected English speaking EU nation. That title will go to Ireland when we leave and unless terms are favourable to them they will go to Dublin.

I've seen a lot of smaller businesses already go to the wall because of the exchange rate bomb, they couldn't soak up the hits. I've also seen many freelancers now struggle for work as companies are freezing spending as they try to figure out what thehell is going on.

Lots of this isn't reported widely but I have a lot of contacts in business and the effect on the vast majority of them has already been felt. Press give no shits about small companies but they are the ones who go first in an economic crisis and I'm already seeing it.

"Were the brilliant minds recruited from among the leavers on mums net?"
No, probably highly educated EU citizens who being paid handsomely for consultancy work.

I am in the Remain camp but I must add that the EU has been horrendously mismanaged, especially in the last ten years and that there is a 'elite' that has done very well for themselves in Brussels (wining / dining / power). To me that is utterly walling. I am not sure what I am more disgusted by the shallow, patronising xenophobic Conservative party or EU 'elites'. What a shame. I wish and hope that the European Union can be revived and reformed. A EU without the UK is crappy, it's all so sad but power hungry individuals have spoiled it for all.

I agree there was sometimes unnecessary vitriol, but there were plenty of people arguing to Leave.

The EU allowed any one of us, be we a nurse, a taxi driver, a bar-owner, a cleaner to go to 26 countries of the EU to seek work, and 'live like a local', should we have wanted.

Drayton, as a matter of interest are there any figures showing how many British passport holders took up those jobs you mentioned in Europe compared to how many other Europeans took up such jobs in UK?

Dapplegrey, remember that the highest proportion of 'Remain' voters was the young. The ones who see themselves as European in every sense. A generation who may be far more flexible in terms of moving across countries to gain experience and a livelihood.

Is it all about the immigration for you? Numbers in, numbers out? Not about opportunity, to work, to live, to retire to Europe?

Hopefully these things will still be possible, because otherwise, I agree with the PP who fears inward looking.