It pains me to say so but I'm starting to think that we might actually make a success of Brexit

[WordYaGoBernadette]

AIBU?

Yes I know there is a topic for this but it's hidden away and mainly populated by Remain supporters and I'm interested in the views of everyone!

I still want to remain but, as the Labour Party has been woeful since the result thus providing no opposition, I'm starting to think it's inevitable.

So ... we're a very rich country. BMW and Audi (for example) aren't going to stand for Merkel and her chums slapping prohibitive tariffs on exporting their cars to GB. Likewise other European exporters.

So who thinks it's going to happen and GB will flourish outside the EU?

Name one brilliant mind working on this, and a clue of what they propose. That whole statement sounds Trumpish.

I'm a remainer. Though it doesn't pain me to admit that possibly things might work out better than expected, I bloody hope they do, as if not, we're fucked.

So who thinks it's going to happen and GB will flourish outside the EU?

The evidence shows that our science and universities base will be hammered by leaving the EU. Like many other scientists, I'm not sticking around to watch. So, no, I don't agree with you that GB will flourish, particularly in the case of hard exit advocated by the Brexit ministers.

Good luck with keeping world class universities going on half the funding of other developed countries, and hiring academics from a pool of 60 million instead of 7 billion.

Right, well the term ickle preshus had taken all reason out of the discussion .

Young people in the UK can now no longer look to places like Australia, the U.S., Canada to gain experience and work , unless they fit specific restricted niches in the points based system . Thousands of Bruts have always emigrated or gone to work overseas in search of opportunity and experience . And not the ickle preshuses, ones struggling to find work and / or with ambition and drive. Other places will open up , presumably , but if we lose free movement of people we lose it for our young people, too.

"and hiring academics from a pool of 60 million instead of 7 billion"

?? don't get this.

Because there are plenty of non-EU nationals in British universities and their permission to live/work here is unaffected by Brexit. There is no reason whatsoever to think that EU nationals cannot work here on the same terms as non-EU.

I think trash talking oneself is pretty silly.

The only game in town now is how to make a success of the situation we're in.

"Young people in the UK can now no longer look to places like Australia, the U.S., Canada to gain experience and work , unless they fit specific restricted niches in the points based system"

Just wondering about the timeframe of the 'now'

Because it was nigh on impossible (except for the very short visas for student work/travel) since at lease the 1980s.

And the rhythm of those countries' immigration decisions doesn't, as far as I can tell, map in any consistent way to the founding of EEC, transformation into EU, start of Schengen, or new accessions.

Because there are plenty of non-EU nationals in British universities and their permission to live/work here is unaffected by Brexit. There is no reason whatsoever to think that EU nationals cannot work here on the same terms as non-EU.

They are allowed to work here because of freedom of movement. Please explain how this won't be affected by brexit .

Non-EU nationals are not subject to any immigration regulations related to membership of EU.

By end March 2019, all nationals will be under those rules.

They will need to move from one process to the other.

But there is no reason whatsoever why the end result (in this case of importing the academics that the universities want) will be different.

"The rise of the far right across Europe is a deeply worrying post Brexit occurrence - as is what's happening across the pond."

The rise of the far right started well before Brexit - if by Brexit you mean the June referendum.

The rise of the far right across Europe is a deeply worrying post Brexit occurrence - as is what's happening across the pond

Nope. The far right was on the rise way before the Brexit vote. So I think Merkel & Co should be listening to concerns rather than let the fanatics get into power.

Whatamess - yes, my title was badly worded. I meant it pains me that I'm starting to accept we'll be leaving the EU (I've contributed to the crowd funded legal challenges so haven't lost all hope) but think we might make a success as a country outside the EU.

lost ha, thanks for the guffaw at being likened to Trump

I've already said I was and still am a remainer. Strongly. But believe it, there are brilliant minds working at getting us out of this mess (I'd tell you but then I'd have to kill you ).

Do you really think the powers that be are sitting idly around, waiting for the country go to the dogs so they can wag their fingers at Brexiters saying I told you so?

It's like any other situation of damage limitation.
And right now, the future is in negotiation.

Sorry Viking I misread your comment.

Dapple, no I don't just mean the referendum I mean the whole debate. The referendum result has just exacerbated the situation by legitimatising their position.

I read a great line last week

" The EU must not act like Alcatraz and behave as though its a fortress prison that no country can leave"

At the moment Brexit is a very convenient distraction from pressing issues in nearly every EU country.

The far right was on the rise way before the Brexit vote. So I think Merkel & Co should be listening to concerns rather than let the fanatics get into power

Yes of course. The Far Right is on the move because the Far Left are pushing countries peoples into a political union they do not want. The far left are putting them at risk and dont seem to listen to what people - their peoples actually want. Hence the rise of the Far Right.

TBH it feels a bit like limbo at the moment - 3 months after the referendum no one knows what Brexit will actually look like and what the UK actually wants - not even the Government apparently.

I'm optimistic but I don't think we can say anything either way yet. You may just not know what's really going on beind the scenes. The company I have had dealings with acts calm and hopeful but behind the scenes it's a different story with very low customer confidence.

Well it's just been announced that article 50 is likely to be triggered in March so we're looking at a 2019 brexit it seems.

No AmberLynne - saying "believe it" with authority doesn't make it a fact. That would be like me saying "I have it on good authority from senior civil servants that there is absolutely nothing coming out of the government right now to suggest anything other than total panic and paralysis," Same right to anonymity applies 😉

Which of the two is the more likely scenario, in real life, not hypothetically?

Well, if both Ken Clarke and my "source" are to be believed, then mine.

Why do you have to keep the identity of the "brilliant minds" secret?

As a country we are going to spend a fortune on specialists to navigate the legal side and negotiate new trade deals. That alone pains me.

Kenneth Clarke
Yep. He's definitely a reliable source of information about the governments plans

It's not just this government who are working on a good deal...