To be livid with DS?

[Ujjayi]

Sorry. This is ranty & long.

DS (16) has a GF (also 16). They have been on a total of 5 dates, the last 2 of which have been at my house. Two weeks ago, whilst supposedly babysitting for younger DS, the 2 of them locked themselves away in his room & had sex. Youngest DS left to his own devices doing lord knows what (he's 12). I was angry when I found out because whilst I appreciate they are both of age, there is a time & a place & DS was supposed to be responsible for younger brother. Also, I feel that at their age, 5 dates is way too few for them to behave as though they have the right to do whatever they like in my home.

We talked it through & I believed DS had understood how irresponsible & disrespectful he had been. We specifically talked about how it isn't ok to be getting on when youngest DS or DH & I are at home. I also said I felt they didn't really know each other yet either & he should think about that before being driven by his hormones.

This evening, GF comes over & DS repeatedly asks me if they can go upstairs. I say no, they can hang out in the den (old playroom now teen-space). DS keeps the door shut & we don't think too much of it as we are literally no more than 5 metres away from them in the kitchen (oh how fucking niaive am I??!!). Then GF appears in hallway, grins at us (we were in the kitchen), grabs handful of tissue from downstairs loo & retreats back to den. DH & I exchange looks of "WTAF" & are rendered speechless. We confront DS after she left & he 'fesses up...not before doing his best Bill Clinton denials.

I am livid. I feel they have both behaved disrespectfully & deliberately gone against my rules. It is my understanding that her parents are very strict & would also be furious to hear this. I actually don't know how to take this forward from here.

[Ujjayi]

NoFucksImAQueen my sentiments & exact words.

[FellOutOfBed2wice]

Can you try and approach it from the angle that it's a bit grim and go from there? I've got (and always had) a self imposed rule that having sex within earshot of my parents is gross, so I've never done it. As a teenager me and boyfriend used to wait til everyone was out. I then moved out anyway so situation wasn't a problem, but even now in my thirties, I wouldn't have sex if I was staying at my parents and they were in, or if we were all on holiday and could hear one another. It's just horrible!! If you could get that message across that it's just a bit grubby and that it's about respect for one another as much as anything else, he might get it a bit better.

I would want her on The Pill if possible, too. I think someone needs to have a chat with her (not suggesting you OP) .... Can you suggest to son that he and she go to the GP together?

[Ujjayi]

FellOutOfBed I hadn't considered that approach (altho that is the way I feel about sex in parents'/PIL's homes too). It's worth a try.

About the Pill issue, I agree they need to be using both but I don't think it's my place to say so to the GF. Altho clearly she is comfortable with me knowing about their sex life if tonight is anything to go by

[midsummabreak]

Could be wrong, but i feel like the girl doesn't disrespect you but does disrespect authority because her parents are more authoritarian in their parenting approach.
I feel Felloutofbed's approach may help your son understand how it feels for others. Put shoe on other foot and sugget you and hubby have sex in the next room 5 m away, while he has a hot chocolate with his girlfreind in the kitchen. Your son may get it more when speaking in terms of grossness such as Felloutofbed's comment.
You are doin great in a tricky situation

[WetPaint4]

They're both being incredibly disrespectful. Being old enough to have sex doesn't make you grown. He still lives at home and should have more respect for your house and rules. You should have told her not to come back until she can understand that as well.

[brambly]

FellOutOfBed Eh?! What right does anyone (never mind a boyfriend's mother) have to demand - or even request - that the girl go on the pill? Huge, huge swathes of the population react very badly to hormonal contraception, and to my mind it's bordering on sinister to even infer that a boyfriend's-mother's-peace-of-mind is a valid reason for pumping herself full of hormones at the age of 16.

OP, I think a pp's suggestion about going for the "it's gross" angle is worth a shot.

[KickAssAngel]

Could you cope with sitting down with both of them? Next time she comes round make it VERY clear that sex when other people can hear/walk in is not OK. Tell both of them that there's a no shut door policy, and if they break that she'll be sent home and not allowed in your house for a while.

Then tell them straight that they absolutely have to use condoms.

IF they can't cope with having that conversation, then she's not allowed over until they are both mature enough.

I would be concerned that they're not using condoms.

[mummyto2monkeys]

I think that one of the problems here, is that your ds doesnt realise that their behaviour is 1. disrespectful and 2. embarrassing for others around him. I imagine you have taught him that sex is natural and not something to be embarrassed to talk to you about but also to be kept private. Your ds has just discovered something that is unbelievably pleasurable, he has in his head followed your rules eg. he has used protection and he made sure his bedroom door was locked (keeping it private). You have told him not to have sex in the house whilst you were all present, he asked to go to his room which you refused but said he could use the old playroom. I may be wrong but I would not be surprised if your son thinks he has followed your rules, if it was a sex act rather than full sex your ds will think they have done nothing wrong.

Autistic individuals can take things very literally, your ds will be following your exact words so it may be time to have a very precise conversation, about what behaviour is appropriate and what behaviour is not acceptable. There is no room for embarrassment, you need to explain to your ds that any type of sex be it oral sex or mutual masturbation, is all inappropriate when you/ family are in the house. Then you need to explain why it is inappropriate! Your son needs to know that their behaviour is obvious to both you and other family members. He needs to know that when they have sex, others can hear them if they are not quiet. And he needs to know how uncomfortable that makes you and others in the house. Your D's cannot put himself into others shoes, he doesn't realise the embarrassment that he has caused. He may feel shame and be mortified that he caused that embarrassment, because that was not his intention. You need to teach him rules and boundaries surrounding sex, as if you don't, they will leave your house and be engaging in the same behaviour, without realising the potential consequences. Most teenagers/ adults are naturally aware of the social rules and boundaries that surround sex. As your son is autistic he needs to be taught these rules, just like any social skill.

You are not alone in this issue, it often presents earlier in the teen years when it is common for autistic teens to be completely unaware of the social rules and boundaries surrounding masturbation. There are books written about sex and relationships, specifically for autistic teens and young adults, it might be worth looking into these books, even as a guide for how to broach the subject. It might also be time for your husband to take over the sex talks. Your son will see himself as a man and may see your rules as trying to infantalise him.

How well do you know your sons girlfriend? Is it possible that she is on the spectrum? If she is then it might be worth having a very frank conversation with both of them. I would be wanting reassurance that contraception is being used. I would make sure not to ban sex outright or ban the girlfriend from the house as to me they will just become a Romeo, Juliet style forbidden love which is more likely to lead to situations where they are playing with fire. If you are happy for them to have sex in an empty house, then try to engineer times where you will be out of the house. If you insist on an empty house when there is always someone at home, you will reach a situation where they feel pushed into hiding it/ defying the rules.

[sailawaywithme]

Oh, OP, what a grim situation and well done for trying to deal with this in as understanding a way as you have.

However, it's clear that "open, understanding mum" is seen by them as an invitation to go ahead and be as rude and disrespectful as they like. I'd be livid and I would not allow the GF to come into your home anymore. Of course, they will still see each other, and you shouldn't do anything to discourage that (make sure to ask how she is, etc) but I would also just calmly state that although you're happy that your son is in a good relationship (assuming it is one), he and his GF have broken the house rules persistently and therefore they cannot be in the house while you're there.

[sailawaywithme]

And FWIW, and I know I may be seen as old-fashioned here, is be horrified if my child (of either sex) was having sex at age 16 wit someone they've had only five dates with. Horrified. Age of consent or not.

[Ujjayi]

mummyto2monkeys I made it very clear to DS that the "no sex when we are at home" rule applied to all manner of sexual contact/practice in a graphic manner so as to be sure he wasn't taking my words as a very literal connection to penetrative sex only. He totally understood & has actively defied me. We have always been very open because he can take things so literally. To me, it has always been worth the embarrassment of using coarse, slang words etc as well as the biological terminology because then we knew he had it all covered.

I have also found some snapchat images which he has shared with his friends being all Charlie Big Bollocks about how I've banned him from the bedroom so I'm just going to have to accept they'll be doing it on the sofa instead. So again, he fully comprehends the rules, he is just choosing to break them.

I don't think it's my place to insist the GF go on the pill. However, I do think that I want to have a face to face conversation with her (with DS present) to clarify the rules of my home & to make it clear they have acted disrespectfully. Oh & she isn't on the spectrum.

[midsummabreak]

Discuss the risks respectfully and be clear about risk both of them are taking especially if your son is not actually using condoms. Keep on with your cool headed respectful approach- as this is the most powerful way of showing them your expectations of them in the way they need to speak with and deal with you and your family and the family home. A turning point in your son's maturity.

[Ujjayi]

sailawaywithme Thank you. And I agree that I am no pearl clutcher but 5 dates does not make a serious enough relationship, IMO, for me to be all cool about them having sex. I tried to find a compromise but it clearly isn't working.

[Joanna0685]

I actually don't think it is that bad. I know lots will disagree, but if it is happening in your house then you can either ban or limit their drinking, make sure no drugs are involved and safe sex is practised. Most teenage pregnancies result from the couple sneaking around so not having access to the pill or being to drunk to wear a condom. Kids do grow up and I think it is the best way to handle it, they clearly like each other which is a lot more than can be said for the way some teenagers lose their virginity so I don't think it is bad at all, my only worry would be her parents opinion.

[midsummabreak]

My 16 y o son is not on the spectrum and resorts to an agressive grunting form of communicating when discussing above issues, so good luck

[Ujjayi]

Joanna I completely get your point & I have long held those same beliefs & I still do. My key issue is the "when" & I don't think it's appropriate for them to be having sex when we could just walk in on them/overhear them. I wouldn't behave with that sense of entitlement myself, as an adult, so I don't see why they should either.

Her parents' opinion concerns me greatly. They could well assume that they are not up to anything because they are not left alone (which is the case at her house). I can't face DS or us getting a lecture on morality from other parents. But what do I do then? If I tell them they could go crazy & if I don't then I feel I'm being deceitful.

[itmustbemyage]

ujjayiSorry went off to bed. My son has ADHD so similar issues, although his stems from poor impulse control. I have been through the whole range of emotions since we found out, the initial urge to say " I told you so" was almost overwhelming and I was too embarrassed to tell anyone for ages. I've now reached acceptance, otherwise it is my grandchild who is going to be the one who suffers. PM me if you want to chat.

[Trifleorbust]

OP, I think you're right that you have no place discussing contraception with your son's GF: that's her business, although if you want to discuss the same with your son, that's up to you. But it is your home and their attitude to it stinks in my opinion. I would be inclined to say she wasn't welcome again in the immediate future, a decision to be reviewed when you are happy that this won't happen again.

[m0therofdragons]

I would talk to both of them, getting gf onside and welcoming her into the family but also laying clear rules. (I still cringe at the noises lol would have heard when dh was bf and lived at home in our late teens - fil recently asked dh if our sex life was still good after 3dc as 'dragons used to like it a lot' )

[manyathingyouknow]

OMG YADNBU

my parents would have gone through the bloody roof.

She sounds like a piece of work. Grinning at your BF's mum after explicitly going against her rules under her roof and metres away from where the family are sitting. Ughhhhhhhhh she sounds like she needs a lesson in respect.


I'd go through my son if he repeatedly did that.

I'd also ask him how he'd feel if you and your husband acted like that.

[RhiWrites]

You're being a bit unreasonable.

A 12 year old doesn't need a baby sitter, still less constant supervision. At 12 they're old enough to be a babysitter.

Your DS has presumably recently discovered sex and he's got a girlfriend to enjoy that with. Let them go to his bedroom and be discreet rather than telling them they're wrong for having sex so soon in the relationship and forcing them to be in the family rooms.

Be pleased he's practicing safe sex. Let him find out himself that emotional connection is key to a relationship.

[Mybeardeddragonjustdied2016]

Maybe ask her outright if they are using contraception and if her parents know they are having sex!! Bet she doesn't want to visit anymore then!!

[Nanny0gg]

If your son is young for his age, is she a little bit, taking advantage of him?

Is this an equal relationship?

[rainbowstardrops]

They have both been totally disrespectful. Not on.

I'd sit them both down and again reiterate your house rules and make it clear that if they are broken then the GF will not be welcome in the house for a while. I'd also threaten to tell her parents if your rules are ever broken again.

I've got a 16yr old DS who has a15 (nearly 16) year old girlfriend. There is no way I'd tolerate them shagging in the next room! I don't even let them go upstairs alone mainly because DSs room is a health hazard but I know her mum allows them in girlfriend's bedroom but with the door open.

Having said that, they both babysat girlfriend's younger siblings a couple of weeks ago too

[Ujjayi]

motherofdragons I would have totally done things the way you suggested but DS's attitude this morning has left me less inclined to do so.

RhiWrites I take your point but as I said, them having sex per se is not an issue for me. But I laid down clear guidelines about it not happening when I'm here which, I feel, is reasonable. There is ample "empty house" opportunities in any given week. Also DS told me this morning that her parents would most definitely not be tolerant & would not allow them any alone time together. So they both know they have respect as young sexual adults in my home but they choose to crap all over that.

NannyOgg that has been a concern for me. The way DS tells it, she has been putting the pressure on to go further than he was comfortable with. He took very literally his father's advice to only sleep with someone you love. When she was pushing him he told her that & she said "that didn't matter".

He is, of course, your average 16 yo being driven by hormones & genitals. I don't have an issue with that at all & I have been calm, supportive & a listening ear.