To be livid with DS?

[Ujjayi]

Sorry. This is ranty & long.

DS (16) has a GF (also 16). They have been on a total of 5 dates, the last 2 of which have been at my house. Two weeks ago, whilst supposedly babysitting for younger DS, the 2 of them locked themselves away in his room & had sex. Youngest DS left to his own devices doing lord knows what (he's 12). I was angry when I found out because whilst I appreciate they are both of age, there is a time & a place & DS was supposed to be responsible for younger brother. Also, I feel that at their age, 5 dates is way too few for them to behave as though they have the right to do whatever they like in my home.

We talked it through & I believed DS had understood how irresponsible & disrespectful he had been. We specifically talked about how it isn't ok to be getting on when youngest DS or DH & I are at home. I also said I felt they didn't really know each other yet either & he should think about that before being driven by his hormones.

This evening, GF comes over & DS repeatedly asks me if they can go upstairs. I say no, they can hang out in the den (old playroom now teen-space). DS keeps the door shut & we don't think too much of it as we are literally no more than 5 metres away from them in the kitchen (oh how fucking niaive am I??!!). Then GF appears in hallway, grins at us (we were in the kitchen), grabs handful of tissue from downstairs loo & retreats back to den. DH & I exchange looks of "WTAF" & are rendered speechless. We confront DS after she left & he 'fesses up...not before doing his best Bill Clinton denials.

I am livid. I feel they have both behaved disrespectfully & deliberately gone against my rules. It is my understanding that her parents are very strict & would also be furious to hear this. I actually don't know how to take this forward from here.

[QueenLizIII]

I think you should be unhappy with your son having a sex life at 16 with a girl he just met, when he has autism and is young for his age and easily led.

Head over to the realtionships board to see how many women and men have a rough ride and get their arse handed to them in dating casually when they are not 16 and have a mild disability.

He shouldnt be doing it IMO. Nothing wrong with teaching him, he should be having sex with someone he doesnt know within 5 dates at the age of 16. That isnt prudish, that is setting him up to date responsibly in adulthood.

[QueenLizIII]

*shouldn't be not should be

[KickAssAngel]

I would def. speak to them together, and make it very clear that any more times of stepping over the line will result in you driving over to her parents and explaining to them in absolute graphic moment by moment detail exactly why she is banned from the house.

Yes, teenagers have sex, all the time, and that isn't the big problem here. BUT

• your son is on the autism spectrum so has less impulse control and is less mature and less able to connect consequences. That actually makes him quite vulnerable.
  

- she has encouraged this behavior even when he was at first reluctant. That's really worrying given how he's more vulnerable than most boys his age.
- you suspect she's using him for practice before ditching him for his best friend. Think about how he'll feel is he finds his best friend and girlfriend 'at it' one day. If I saw one of DD's friends treating her so badly, and just using her until a better friend or boyfriend turned up, I'd be trying to manipulate things so that the friend was around less.
- she appears to really want to defy/evade any rules of her house or yours. So I wouldn't trust her to be making good decisions, and that would include whether to use condoms.

Given those reasons, I would want to step in. This doesn't sound like an even, respectful, kind relationship where sex is OK. It sounds quite manipulative and unequal, with your son about to learn a horrible lesson.

You may feel he needs to learn this (we all have to get our heart broken at some point) but I would, definitely, want to talk directly to her. After all, if she's openly having sex in your house, in spite of the rules, she really doesn't give a shit about you or your son.

[Nanny0gg]

I agree with graphista.

I think you need to speak to her parents.

[itmustbemyage]

You assume pretty much correctly, even though I was devastated I still thought their attitude was terrible.
youarenotprepared

[Ujjayi]

Graphista You have written the words that I felt but couldn't bring myself to say. I am concerned that he is in a potentially abusive situation. This has happened before - when he was 14, an ex-GF was sexting with him & trying to coerce him into letting her give him "no strings attached oral" . We also talked a lot about female to male coercion early in the summer when he'd been spied in the changing rooms by some girls. He was convinced that his complaint would be laughed at so didn't raise it with a teacher or us.

This evening I have had him crying in my arms saying he feels out of his depth & just wants to make us all happy. My heart is breaking for him, despite the crap.

[Glitterandglue]

Since you know your son is emotionally a bit younger than his chronological age, due to his autism, try viewing the situation as you would if you had a younger child (say 13 or 14, or wherever your son is) and a sixteen year old girlfriend wanting to have sex with them. And also bearing in mind that sixteen year old girls are generally more mature than sixteen year old boys, anyway.

It sounds like she is putting pressure on him, whether or not she realises it, because he may or may not be being honest with her about his own feelings. I would hope that you could get him to realise that it's not okay for her to do that and actually your rules trump whatever she's asking for, because that's about respect aside from anything else.

If you can't and he is determined to keep seeing her (as teenagers - and many adults - will often keep wanting to stay in a relationship which isn't healthy, for a myriad of reasons) then the next time she comes over I would say you need to speak with both of them together and have a very frank discussion about both consent and respect, and also explain to her that if she is going to be disrespectful to you, she isn't welcome in the house.

(Disclaimer: advice may or may not be total nonsense, depending on your situation and any other information that might be relevant. Best guess, depending on what I've read so far.)

[greenfolder]

I never let boyfriends stay over
the only time it happened with when dd was 19 and had been going out with her boyfriend 3 years. I am not naive or prudish. It's about having a bit of respect from us and our home. And the fact with 3 daughters we would have had 3 extra I v the house at any one time.
When we are away they can invite who they like.
Ds has put you in the position where you are having to lay down the rules. I agree he is still a child. The age of consent is 16 but that doesn't mean he has the right to shaggy on your house!

[greenfolder]

Feckin auto correct. Shag in your house!

[graphista]

Wow I actually expected to be told I was being too extreme!

Ujjayi I am so sorry your son is struggling with this it sounds like an extremely difficult situation. Glitterandglue makes an excellent point that as he is less mature for his age (for whatever reason it wouldn't just apply to a child with asd kids mature at different rates) forget the law/rules on his chronological age and do what you (meaning you and his dad, what does he think about all this?) Think best for your son. So difficult I wish you so much luck with it.

[mummyto2monkeys]

I read that children on the spectrum function socially and emotionally around four years behind their peers. I find this accurate with my autistic son and my last post which was poorly worded, was trying to gently hint at what graphista has said.

Our autistic children are incredibly vulnerable and my previous post was implying that he may be out of his depth and unsure of how to behave in that situation. Its incredibly difficult to maintain boundaries whilst also being concerned that your son is being coerced. If this was reversed and your ds was an autistic sixteen year old girl, who had been coerced by a boy to drop her morals and have sex anyway, you would be very concerned for her. In your position I would be careful not to assume that he is deliberately defying your rules. Especially when as his behaviour showed tonight, he could be in a social situation that he simply doesn't have the social skills to deal with. An attractive young woman who is physically touching him and possibly coercing him into behaviour that his body is responding to but his head is trying to resist can be very powerful. Unlike the female body, the penis has a mind of its own and I would be trying very gently to find out if he fully consented to both sex and whatever happened in the playroom.

Your son sounds very young and very vulnerable. The hard thing is that being autistic, your son may have a hard time making friends due to his lack of social skills. If he lacks confidence and suddenly has a girlfriend who is interested in him, he could be coercing himself to push his personal boundaries out of fear that this girl will stop liking him or will make a fool of him if he doesn't do as she wants. He could be so desperate to impress and please his gf that there is simply no thought for the implications of his behaviour.

I don't envy your situation and it has posed many thoughts and much discussion between my husband and I this evening. I think I have found a new topic to study over the coming years. I have read a good bit about the vulnerability of young women on the spectrum and I felt thankful that my ds is a boy. It didn't occur to me that my son could be vulnerable to young women.....

Hopefully this is a case of your ds being too eager to please his new gf, in which case your conversations about consent may go some way to helping your ds to recognise his own boundaries, alongside recognising respectful behaviour in your home.

[GladAllOver]

This evening I have had him crying in my arms saying he feels out of his depth & just wants to make us all happy. My heart is breaking for him, despite the crap.

This is awful. He is being sexually abused, and she is an abuser. He is suffering, as abused children do. You should not let this go on.

In your place I would tell her she is not welcome in your home, and if she contacts your son again you will go straight to her parents.

I feel so sorry for your poor lad.

[TondelayaDellaVentamiglia]

well if he is happy to discuss your rules all over the internet, I'd certainly not hold back from telling her parents.... let them come in with some plans

or maybe you could all sit in the front room and make inappropriate whoops and grunts....that might put the teens off a bit.

[FlyingElbows]

Tbh I'd think you'd be perfectly justified in talking to her parents. Her attitude in your home suggest, as someone has already said, that she may have a less than sensible attitude to contraception. A baby would be 50 % your financial responsibility so you're quite right to want to ensure that the chances of that are as reduced as possible. You sound like a really good mum no matter what Billy Big Bollocks is saying to his mates. I also think you're right to be concerned that he's being exploited and a discussion with her parents may be needed to get them to understand, and communicate to her, that your rules exist for a reason. I think in your position I'd talk to them and if that didn't help I'd have to consider not allowing her in the house. I'm of the same approach as you when it comes to sex but this is not about teens having sex this is about teens being disrespectful and potentially exploited.

[trufflepiggy]

*
"unlike the female body, the penis has a mind of its own."
*
Does it now.

[Purplebluebird]

I'd sit down with the 2 of them and talk about why they shouldn't do it (from the gross angle probably!). I would not tell her parents, I don't think that is necessary, they are of a legal age. It's not your job.

[Purplebluebird]

Ahh, I missed the last post -.- That doesn't sound good at all, I don't know what I would do at that point, other than having an open doors rule...

[ArmfulOfRoses]

Do you think he wants you to give him an 'out' by banning her from the house?
You can be the bad guy iyswim.

[ArmfulOfRoses]

I think I would ban her either way though tbh.

[TheNaze73]

I also agree with graph

Coercion is a 2 way street & this doesn't sound right at all

[JustHereForThePooStories]

This evening I have had him crying in my arms saying he feels out of his depth & just wants to make us all happy. My heart is breaking for him, despite the crap

He's looking for a way out. You can give it to him my banning her from the house, allowing the relationship to fizzle out.

I would have loved such permissive parents at 16. The truth is, I appreciated how strict they were and often used that as a way to get out of things I wasn't strong enough to say a direct "no" to.

[myownprivateidaho]

Erp I'm afraid I think yabu. A 12 year old doesn't need constant supervision. And two sixteen year olds having safe sex isn't going to make the sky fall in. It's not a massive act of disrespect doing it when supposed to be babysitting - I'm sure they just don't get a lot of opportunities to retreat to a bedroom! I actually don't agree that this is a problem at all, unless you told them they had to stay in the same room as the 12 year old the whole time or something.

[turnaroundbrighteyes]

Just wondering why you're okay with him having sex if you're out, but not if you're in?

Kind of seems the wrong way around tbh.

So long as they're discrete / respectful then you're there if something goand so more likely to find out if something goes wrong (condom failure, coercion, etc).

[midsummabreak]

I feel banning her from he house is blaming solely her and really both appear to be consenting.
If your son is crying and emotionally fragile, it is great that you are accepting of his vulnerability yet it is important not to down play his part in being happily involved with his girlfreind in a sexual relationship.
if he still feels unsure when and where is appropriate for after much discussion that he has overstepped the boundaries, yet does no want at all to make his family unhappy, this is a seperate issue, and one that with time and patience, he may more clearly understand.
My younger 15 y o son has major issues understanding some social issues, tends to have acquantances, yet not close freinds, has difficulty with change and puts himself to bed after school finishes almost like he has been overloaded by the school day. I have a feeling he will run into very similar issues when older, and struggle with the emotional side as well important subtleties he needs to learn, when he becomes involved in a sexual relationship.

[BuggerLumpsAnnoyed]

I know you say only 5 dates, but I'm assuming they go to school together and therefore probably have spent quote a lot of time together?