To think that buying "stuff" is getting out of hand?

[LunaLoveg00d]

Let me preface by saying I am not a lentil knitting vegan eco-warrior. I buy stuff, I drive, I fly abroad on holiday and we don't grow our own food.

However. Since I have had my first child - only 13 years ago - the culture of buying "stuff" seems to have boomed and I don't think it's positive. Supermarkets and other shops are full of (mainly plastic) tat which people are encouraged to buy for every festival imaginable - Valentine's, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Easter, New Year, Christmas, Halloween - the list is endless.

You can't just have a pumpkin lantern for Halloween any more - you have to have fairy lights, cupcake cases, scary decorations, glow in the dark skeletons, adult AND child costumes, bunting, paper chains, etc etc etc. And nearly everything sold is poor quality or designed to be used once or twice and thrown away.

Clothing is the same - chains like the supermarkets, Primark, New Look or H&M are all about churning out clothes as cheaply as possible, designed to be worn for a few weeks or months and then chucked.

It's just all so wasteful and crazy. We are filling up landfills at a rate of knots with all of our plastic crap and disposable clothing and teaching our kids that celebrating festivals and special days isn't about being nice to each other or spending time making or finding a special gift, it's about buying as much "stuff" as you can as cheaply as you can and then chucking it out when you're finished.

All a bit depressing really.

Pissssedoff I will do that.

I want to watch that war on waste thing, wondering if my dcs should as well.

I don't really like shopping and acquiring stuff. Other than books, board games (I have ASD and games are my 'thing') and educational resources (dcs are now home educated and I am a tutor for other kids too). Hate clothes shopping, not bothered about tech etc. Couldn't in a million years afford a car anyway, but not bothered as public transport is excellent round here.

There was a lot of bullying at the school DD was at before being HE, and most of it was a clear divide between the Haves and the Have Nots. Really hate all that.

"I'm also shocked by the range and expense of food in supermarkets. I know food prices have gone down overall relative to incomes but (in the 70s) we kids used to have either lemon or orange squash, Ribena as a treat; 6 types of biscuit maximum, ditto crisps and fruit in season.

It's no wonder no one has any money when everything from smoothies to hummus is seen as a necessity."

I agree wholeheartedly with most of this thread, but I draw the line at this comment. The broadening of food choices is a good thing. Honestly! (I agree about fruit and veg in season though. That should be much stricter.)

I really think we are all suffering from all this consumerism. Maybe something will happen - Brexit or something - that will put a stop to it. It feels like Boxing Day right now, we've all been overindulging for ages and need that enforced period of "January" where we are all slightly poor and deprived but ultimately feel better for it

"You're unreasonable thinking that cheap clothes cost much less to make than expensive ones, it's mostly profits and marketing that account for the difference"

Er no NewBalls you're wrong. People who produce clothing for Hennes, Primark etc simply get paid criminally low wages.

I've never felt better for being poor or deprived, just saying

Dead good, where's your evidence that the expensive companies don't do that too?

My understanding is the entire manufacturing industry is murky and complicated. The companies themselves don't necessarily know who's making clothes for them, there's no transparency and its complicated by lots of middlemen with very dubious morals.

But, looks like most companies, cheap and expensive are caught up in the same fairly awful system.

ragwort do you have school aged children? I think it is easy to have a no present rule when you don't have school aged children but much more difficult when you do. Little children don't understand why Santa bought presents for all their friends but none for them. Even teenagers feel a bit left out when they are the only ones who didn't get anything for Christmas.
We only have one family member outside of me and DH who buy for our children at Christmas so I but my children presents. In any case I love seeing my children unwrap their presents. We have a reasonably small budget per child for Christmas but we will get them things we think they will love and will enjoy watching them open them excitedly.

Summer - I have school age children. At Xmas they get gifts. But just one main and then stocking. It's plenty as they obviously still have the last few years stuff from birthdays and Xmas etc also.

I haven't seen it as much on MN but on another parenting site with a similar name last year there were endless threads about whether a parent had bought "enough" for their kids and then reeling off a huge long list of presents. And then you're a "bah humbug spoilsport" if you don't buy an elf on the shelf and another huge bag of presents for Christmas Eve because it's all about the kiddies, innit?

This wastefulness isn't about money AT ALL.

Hmm. It's not about money in the strictest sense, but there's a discussion to be had about it being related to class. People demonstrate their 'worth' to others around them in different ways, and as someone who moves in very mixed social circles I'd say, paradoxically, that the thriftiness is more common amongst middle rather than working class parents. Not wanting people to think you're poor is more important when you actually are poor. Particularly if you're poor without any other visible markers of social status: ie if you're on a 12k household income as shop workers rather than impoverished PhD students. There's quite a lot been written on that.

But yes, this phenomenon isn't a positive thing. Especially not for the planet. And sometimes people who have the least end up going into debt because of it.

I would also be interested to hear about whether paying more genuinely does mean better conditions for workers. I know there are specifically ethical companies, and for example John Lewis is owned by the workers rather than some multi-millionaire. But is it true that you're better off being a garment sewer for eg Hobbes than Peacocks?

I completely agree with for post about class and items hyacinth

art&co I agree that therefore no need to go overboard and buy huge piles of presents but I do think having a no present at all rule when you have children is a bit far fetched (unless for financial reasons). I have a budget of £150 for each teenager, which won't buy much for teenagers and I have a budget of £50 for baby as I will just get him a few toys appropriate to his level of development. I won't be buying huge piles of tat just for the sake of it.

My understanding (from watching a documentary) is just enourmous factories churn out clothing to different retailers and the clothes themselves may have varying specs but the workers are the same- I don't believe for a second anyone can have faith in the what ThoSe standards are in counties like India Indonesia, Bangladesh because they're very corrupt.

I imagine if you buy British or EU you can be fairly sure the standards would be good but I don't know of any retailer selling clothes made in the UK.

Hyacinth, I totally agree. We are firm "middle class" professionals, live in a nice area, degree educated, two cars etc etc. Comfortably off. Most of my friends are in similar situations. Bags of handmedowns regularly passed over at the school gates, people are happy to say that their new coat is from Oxfam or another charity shop, more often than not party bags are a slice of cake and a bag of Haribo. Nobody seems to have to demonstrate their lifestyle to anyone else.

My SIL has a massive chip on her shoulder - neither her nor her husband went to Uni, they still live in the small town they were brought up in, they both have secure but poorly-paid jobs and there isn't a lot of cash sloshing about. But she won't even TAKE her old clothes to the charity shop in case someone sees her in there. Her teenage daughter won't look at sale rails in shops because "she's not a tramp". It's all about keeping up appearances and trying to make out you're doing better than you are.

Getting into debt over Christmas is just crazy. Even very small children can have their expectations managed about what Santa can and cannot manage and you don't have to fill the house with plastic to give your children a great Christmas.

Ah yes but the whole hand me down is part of your middle class thriftiness OP- that's what your tribe do. You're all trying to fit in

Thanks for asking LaurieMarlow - I work in the clothing industry, have done for many years, and have worked across a range of markets from high street to "ethical" to luxury.

I have been to garment factories in the UK (including London) and seen how people work. I have been to factories in Europe and the Far East (Fairtrade and "standard").

Some high street labels use "suppliers", these can have their designers and head office staff in the UK and produce the garments in the far east etc - that is where you get those murky supply chain issues where nobody knows what's going on. That isn't true of all brands/labels however and some have very transparent producer relationships.

I suppose what I'm saying is, if you buy expensive then you are right - you can't really guarantee that the workers were well paid. But it doesn't therefore follow that if you buy extremely cheaply, it's similarly unclear. If you buy a pair of jeans for £8 then you can be certain that someone was exploited along the way.

I think buying second hand is a really good thing, but charity shops need a reverse overhaul imo. We are really lucky to have a BRILLIANT in our town - large, cheap, and they sell everything they receive in donations. Think baskets full of half-empty cans of Lynx and hairspray, loose cutlery, designer clothing priced the same as everything else, hotel miniature toiletries by the till, trunks full of children's clothes all for 50p/£1, fabrics and towels and curtains.

They don't have a staff member siphoning off the "good stuff" and selling it on ebay. Therefore you can get real bargains, and also pop in and pick up a half-used tube of face wash for 50p. As a result, it's constantly heaving. I'm in there at least once a week as it's such a goldmine, and I donate everything I can to them.

The other charity shop is "curated", charges £5 for an Atmosphere polyester jumper, and I don't even bother with it.

It's a bit middle class to not spend much at Christmas to be honest.

I suppose your SIL is taking status where she can OP. Showing you're not poor is probably more a matter of pride when you think some people might think you are. It's the wide-screen TV thing isn't it?

I'm a charity shop volunteer and we do curate our donations. We don't sell things with holes and stains, are legally not allowed to sell electricals which haven't been PAT tested and I would imagine there be very good hygiene reasons for not selling half used cosmetics and we will not accept donations of anything edible. We also price according to brand - a jumper in good condition from Boden is going to be more than one from Asda.

We certainly don't have someone through the back siphoning anything off for Ebay! We do have our own online shop which is where some of the "best" stuff goes as we've more chance of making money on it if we can show it to a wider audience.

I've never come across a charity shop of the type described above though. I'm not sure I'd be happy buying half a pot of face cream either.

OP I was going to issue a disclaimer that there's nothing edible or electrical, they also don't sell duvets and the clothes are all wearable.

My point (re the charity shop) is that they sell everything including the good stuff. I regularly pick up items in there with tags still on. I've never seen this elsewhere, I can only assume that this sort of thing is picked off for online store or, yes, eBay (I know that Oxfam to name one do this - they have an ebay page, google it).

I'm perfectly happy to buy half-used toiletries, I bought an opened bottle of Nivea Soft last week. I squeezed out the first little bit, washed the outside with Fairy liquid just because, and carried on. My face hasn't fallen off yet... I know it's not for everyone but I see loads of people buying it. Was chatting to a woman (when I bought the Nivea Soft! We were both rummaging) and she had come in literally to buy her "products" instead of going to Boots.

All sounds rather grim doesn't it, but I don't care! Ha.

Maybe (on the subject of the good clothes they receive) there are just some very generous benefactors in our area. The size of the space also helps, it's big so there is room for all the STUFF.

Yes interesting point Hyacinth when I explained to a pupil when I worked in primary school that I was going to the 2nd hand uniform sale after school. He was in dds class. I think I may have been donating stuff.

He scathingly remarked it was like Oxfam. I said nothing wrong with that.

I tended to buy tupperware and although it is plastic it's still being used over 20 years' later so good purchase.

My weakness is clothes. I've accumulated a lot over the last 20yrs. But I'm the same size so they aren't redundant yet. Tbh I'm keeping some of the cooler pieces so DD can have them when she's an older teen.

I've tended to hoard the last few years because I'm a lp and can't nip to the shops easily. So if it's a bargain I'm likely to need at some point then I buy it. We've got a new heart foundation shop that sells PAT tested electicals. The printers in there are better than my decrepit 8yr old one.

Hahahaha, I just had a look at the online Oxfam shop - they are selling a BNWT tu (sainsburys) babygro for £4.99! When sainsburys have their regular 25% off tu sale I buy babygros in packs of 3 for £3.25 and they always get outgrown rather than worn out. Now I know why I rarely bother with charity shops.