To think that buying "stuff" is getting out of hand?

[LunaLoveg00d]

Let me preface by saying I am not a lentil knitting vegan eco-warrior. I buy stuff, I drive, I fly abroad on holiday and we don't grow our own food.

However. Since I have had my first child - only 13 years ago - the culture of buying "stuff" seems to have boomed and I don't think it's positive. Supermarkets and other shops are full of (mainly plastic) tat which people are encouraged to buy for every festival imaginable - Valentine's, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Easter, New Year, Christmas, Halloween - the list is endless.

You can't just have a pumpkin lantern for Halloween any more - you have to have fairy lights, cupcake cases, scary decorations, glow in the dark skeletons, adult AND child costumes, bunting, paper chains, etc etc etc. And nearly everything sold is poor quality or designed to be used once or twice and thrown away.

Clothing is the same - chains like the supermarkets, Primark, New Look or H&M are all about churning out clothes as cheaply as possible, designed to be worn for a few weeks or months and then chucked.

It's just all so wasteful and crazy. We are filling up landfills at a rate of knots with all of our plastic crap and disposable clothing and teaching our kids that celebrating festivals and special days isn't about being nice to each other or spending time making or finding a special gift, it's about buying as much "stuff" as you can as cheaply as you can and then chucking it out when you're finished.

All a bit depressing really.

oaty "It is though lorelei; if for example Christmas decorations were made to last for decades, it wouldn't be affordable to buy new ones every year. "

even the cheapest Xmas decs can and do last for decades.

I wouldn't want a cotton top, for example, necessarily designed to last for decades because my first thought would be that I'd be paying for something that might get ink on it or whatever.

The planned obselescence that annoys me more is in tech and particularly things like Tube train and lift parts - forcing huge expenditure type deals. I must be honest and say I am not too bothered if Xmas decs are designed with the idea of immediate binning because in reality, they don't have to be. People will do it because a bauble cost 25p but we dig out the same old stuff in the office and it lasts years!

just to add, if Xmas decs were outrageously expensive - and I think some of them are! - then some people would still buy different ones each year!

Dh and I both mend clothes, and I have taught my sons basic mending too - being larger, I find it hard to find clothes I love, so I would rather mend them and keep them going than get rid of them when they need mending. I don't buy myself lots of clothes, and what I do buy, generally lasts for years.

I also agree with Luna about Christmas decorations - when dh and I married, and had our first christmas, we had to buy a full set of decorations, and they were pretty cheap and generic, but over the years we have replaced them with nicer ones that we really love - I generally spend up to £10 per year on one or two new decorations - and each year I really look forward to seeing the old favourites come out again - it's part of the joy of Christmas for me!

oaty yes, I've heard of that website. I'll try and find it.

We've got a Halloween tat pop-up shop in our shopping centre this month. I've walked past with a disapproving look.

That website is called Buy me once.

I know what would really help with waste - car boot sales that start at 12pm or later; and more under cover ones for rainy days.

I think car boot sales are a great way to recycle things, and stop people buying so much new stuff. But the problem is most people don't want to get up at 6 or 7 on a Sunday morning. Ebay is really for more expensive brands and lots of things don't sell on there, plus its very time consuming to sell. People often don't want to give everything to charity shops when they know they can get money for it. So stuff builds up in houses not being used, when it could be easily sold on.

I've always thought the crack of dawn start was crazy for car boots - why not have them in the afternoon instead?

People acquire clutter at boot sales though - and charity shops. I've actually stopped going as we don't really need anything (it was good when we first bought a house and when DCs were little).
DP's friend lives near a big charity shop so when DP goes to visit he pops in to have a nosy and comes back with something that was a 'bargain' but we really don't need that I eventually sneak off back to a charity shop!
I agree though -make it easier to get rid of stuff! I live in a quite sparsely populated area so ebay (buying and selling) is hard for larger items, gumtree I've had mixed success..
I have lots of stuff I want to get rid of (baby stuff) - I was given lots and lots - I did buy stuff as well but I am not comfortable selling anything for a profit when I benefited so much from freebies. I give it away when I can but most people I know have older siblings so have stuff...
And I am reluctant to use freecycle anymore as there are some real piss takers on there (I live quite far out so often offer to drop things off in the local town if centralish when I am going - my favourite was a woman who wanted a play pen for her first grandchild she had to look after sometimes...told me all about what a handful he was at 18 months etc...about 2 yrs later I offered some tap and jazz shoes - suitable for a 7-8yr -she asked for those for her granddaughter ...it was only cos I was going back to her house the penny dropped! If she'd been honest about selling stuff on but it was the elaborate lies/deceit that I was uncomfortable with...)
On the other hand I do think I could sell some stuff cheaply (to help people with less income out) and give the proceeds to a local charity...
(Actually I sold a bike on Gumtree - was going to not take any money from the person who came for it - as long as they didn't take the mickey. But it was just too awkward when it came to it - thought they might think I thought they looked poor or something so I took the money...)

My ILs live near a huge regular car boot. Thing is, there is so much crockery, small tatty furniture, tatty paperbacks, baby clothes, out of date ornaments, toy cars and cuddly toys, that no-one wants most of them and the sellers don't want to get rid of items for 10p each.
So lots of people drive off at the end of the sale just abandoning their pitch with all their junk, so pitch prices have to go up to cover disposal costs. And MIL who can't resist a freebie loads herself up with sacks of stuff she doesn't need. Which then go back to charity shops....
THey have church hall sales near me but unless you want baby things (which go immediately) it's all rather sad tatty clothes and jewellery and ornaments and people trying to make money off them. I give the kids a few quid for toys to make a kid trying to sell old ones happy, but figures from the playground craze three years ago just aren't worth anything...

I think 'Sunday opening', the advent of 24hour supermarkets etc has really added to the problem. As stated earlier in the thread shopping has become a leisure activity almost a hobby. As a child shops closed once in the week for ' half day closing' and no shops were open on a Saturday. With regard to food people generally have a finite food budget so those that do a big shop on Sunday would do it another time or online. No one would starve!

If everywhere shut on a Sunday maybe there would be a resurgence of people indulging in hobbies/ exercise.

"I think 'Sunday opening', the advent of 24hour supermarkets etc has really added to the problem."

This is something we have that many other European countries don't, but I suppose these things were a response to our demand for shopping opportunities rather than the other way around.

Personally I think we could learn a lot from the way other European countries do things, in particular not having shops open on Sundays, but this country is so money-driven that there's probably no going back now.

I'd love to go back to boring Sundays. Tbh I did ban myself from shopping on Sundays (unless an essential crisis shop ) a few years ago. And even as a working total lp I've pretty much managed it.

What upsets me as much as the buying is the throwing away.

I would give away or sell anything vaguely usable that I no longer wanted and am constantly amazed that people just literally bin perfectly good things they don't want anymore.
Do they realise it's going in a massive hole in the ground? For millennia?

Oh yes, I long for the boring old Sundays! We have a baby and I think we're going to start having one full day of just family time and no shopping and running around. I loved that when I was growing up.

Yes who really wanted Sunday shopping, it's just created another day of traffic chaos.

I'll never forget when Dh came home with this. He used to work at the tip and he found this in one of the bags of rubbish that was brought there.

It's a little glass tigger with a 9ct gold butterfly on his hand. Made by company Lenox.

When we had a look to see how much it's worth, we was shocked to see it could be worth £50-£100.

It is in immaculate condition. And I won't let it go now. I also managed to get hold of an eeyore but I paid for that one

"Yes who really wanted Sunday shopping,"

Loads of people obviously, people were doing it even when it was illegal for the shops to be open and demand was such that the shops managed to get the law changed.
Problem for me is that Saturday gets so overcrowded.

"Personally I think we could learn a lot from the way other European countries do things, in particular not having shops open on Sundays, but this country is so money-driven that there's probably no going back now."

There are demands for more Sunday shopping in Belgium. The only thing putting a bit of a brake on things is the fact that the unions there are pretty strong and won't let their workers work Sundays without getting special overtime pay. However, people used to get more pay for non-standard hours in British shops too and that's gone now. I'm afraid that the American way is taking over the world. It's going to be work, work, work to spend, spend, spend and quality of life will go down.

I think it also sadly has to do with(don't know how to word it) how little people care about anything! I don't mean that quite how it sounds but we have decorations and took time to make them still from 2 decades ago.we looked after them.
we also cared more about time together. we didn't need the new tech or gismos or best paper cases and new Halloween decs.we had one pumkin and had fun sticking our faces in flour for chocolates after apple bobbing.done!! and fab. now you have to have the best decorated webs.the right costumes. the lanterns. why?
chrsitmas. we were greatful for the tack but greatful for the main present.we looked after it and then went about the best family day together.and the next day we didn't need more.that was it,gifts over until birthday more or less.
time was for family.
more time outdoors as kids.
more time caring instread of how material things seem to be now and how we are never good enough unless we do...have...are...
I want world peace and love hahaha.isnt that enough

Totally disagree with the best things in life being free. We are tight at the moment and with a toddler even the most mundane activity is more expensive.
We live in the city. Our favourite 'free' activity used to be country walks... Aside from the transport cost to get there...Now that requires spending money on stopping somewhere to feed DS (winter is much more expensive than summer when you can picnic) where DH and I would have eaten sarnies on a log or in the car. We need a child carrier or off road buggy. He needs clothes we don't mind getting muddy and ruined and/or outdoor gear and shoes that we wouldn't otherwise need. Also being winter we need somewhere to change him, which means buying food/drink somewhere with toilets, or paying entry to an NT type place.
We were on hols recrntly, staying in a cottage with a massive garden, countryside all around. We popped out a lot, or played in the garden and then came back for food. All very well if you can afford a massive garden and a house in a lovely location. As it is going pretty much anywhere and doing pretty much anything with dS costs, beyond going to the shops or tiny local park.

It's only when you have enough money that 'stuff' doesn't matter - you can buy it or choose to be minimalist. It is really important to recognise that that in itself is a huge luxury.

Agree up to a point Bluepowder, but also if you don't have much money then increasingly you have little space so knowing how to keep it usable is vital. The economics of stuff vs housing and workers' time has changed hugely in a couple generations, and buying habits and household management habits learnt from people's parents haven't caught up completely.

The shift to living and working further away from local shops is also part of it - if you rarely go to your local high street because you're at work and then use the supermarket, you are less likely to donate stuff to charity shops because you'd have to make a special trip, (people are now fly-tipping locally because the council now wont take anything without you paying £20 a go) and you're more likely to just buy those new kids clothes at the supermarket because it's £5 for a winter coat and it would be £2.40 to get the bus to even look at local charity shops. If you don't have storage space you aren't going to buy a coat in advance.

Figuring out how best to manage stuff so you feel a bit richer than you are rather than poorer is going to be different for everyone in different places. At an extreme I know a wealthy family with a huge hoarding problem who fill up houses and then buy another - the parents truly think they are poor because they have no space! Conversely the more anyone knows about repair costs and longevity of anything they may need to buy, the better decisions they can make and thus be able to save in the long term. Currently there's an imbalance of information with manufacturers knowing how long their items are likely to last but the public don't. I'm finally able to afford the kinds of items like frying pans with 25-year dishwasher guarantees, but given the price they'd better damn last me out as the Tefal ones that last me a couple years would actually be cheaper if the Circulon ones die just after their 25 years are up!

Notcitrus - for a frying pan you would better with an iron one (no nonstick layer) like professional chefs use. Not cast iron -black iron.
I have two (smaller and larger) I bought 20yrs ago and they will outlast me! They are heavy and they will rust but I put mine in the dishwasher - you just need to wipe them out with oil on a bit of kitchen roll if they get rusty. But I often just swill them under the tap then put them on a jet for a few minutes to dry out.
They are pretty nonstick - if they do become a bit sticky you can 'prove' them. Put some salt in the bottom, heat it really hot, let it cool pour it out, add a thin layer of veg oil, heat it up and pour it out, wipe out with kitchen roll. Unless they are really rusty/dirty and need a really good scrub you can also just skip the salt bit - or even just wipe it out with oil/kitchen roll before heating it to use...
They are usually about £10 each... you can get thinner 'frying' ones but mine are 'omelette' ones which are heavier but sturdier...
I used to be a chef and it is one thing I bought for personal use when I scarcely afford anything -couldn't stand the thin nonstick ones! And you can use them in the oven too - for roasts etc (but handles do take up a lot of oven space). (I also insist on certain type of veg peeler, a turning knife, decent cooks knife - and good quality silicone mats for things like meringues and brandy snaps - not that I make either of those often )

There was an interesting article on R4 this afternoon about things & stuff. There was a woman on it who owned 700 pairs of shoes! One pair she has owned for 12 years and won't get rid because they remind her of how she felt when she first wore them.
Buying stuff is known to increase the happy hormone, which I guess can become addictive.
On the other end of the scale there was a man who is practising minimalism. He owns a total of 60 personal items, which includes clothing.
I have been trying to wdge towards minimalism for the past 5 years. Slowly getting there. I'm great at not spending, buying 2nd hand & culling. But rubbish at repairing and making do. Although my clothes do last a good 3-4years before they need replacing