To question whether this child should be in mainstream school?

[Goldenhandshake]

There is a child in my DC's year 3 class, I do not know the extent of his learning difficulties or conditions, I have spoken to his mum on a few occasions and she has stated he has ADHD, however there may be more she hasn't divulged, always assumed it was none of my business tbh. She was very open in saying he had set his siblings coat on fire previously (whilst the sibling was wearing it!).

However I am becoming increasingly worried, he has had several very violent outburst in class and the playground, he has been pulled off another child after wrapping his hands round his throat and choking the lad, has thrown a chair at the teacher and broken a window. It sounds very much like he has difficulty controlling his anger and I am now concerned for my DC's safety.

I don't want to be one of those parents who pushes out children for being different or having complex needs, but I equally do not want the worry that he will attack or harm my child.

So WIBU to request a meeting or call with the school to find out what they are doing to either limit the risk or manage this child's needs appropriately and keep the rest of the class safe?

Is your child scared of him? Upset by it all?
If not I don't see how there is a safeguarding issue that affects you, at all.
And thus, the fact the school may be failing him, is HIS parents issue and Nothing to do with you.

Are you one of 'those' parents?

Oblomov Nope, not one of 'those' parents and have no wish to be, hence why I have reiterated many times on this thread that I am not going in all guns blazing etc.

I just want to ensure my child is safe, and this child's outbursts and propensity for violence (which is not 'hearsay' as a pp has suggested) place a question mark over that safety. I think blocking me with safeguarding rules is a cop out. I am not asking to see his medical records, or even asking his diagnosis or whether he is statemented. I want to know what the school are doing to prevent further violence, and whether there is anything I can do to ensure my DC doesn't cause an outburst for example.

Pata - your comment is pretty shocking actually. Every child has the right to be safe at school and any normal parent would be concerned in these circumstances. As for you point about all children have a right to mainstream schooling - absolutely they do both the child with SEN but also the 29 other children have the right to be educated without it being totally disrupted by one child. The SEN child must be having a terrible time, but I am sure it's not a barrel of laughs for the other kids watching chairs being thrown at Windows. They are probably petrified. The school needs to make adequate provision for all children, and perhaps a word with the HT may help the school prioritise this.

CoolCarrie you can speak up but you don't need to be a twat when doing it. You can say "I'm worried for the safety of my child, can you reassure me?" and the school will hopefully listen and be able to reassure you. Gossiping in the playground, ostracising a child and their parents and demanding that the child is removed or the school tell you the child's needs and support is being a twat HTH.

Sorry failed to answer the query about my DC, in short, my DC is 'wary' of him, understands he is liable to lose his temper easily, and while gets on ok, there is a nervousness there that he will 'turn on' my DC.

t4nut: They're not hiding it - the DFE has told schools to reclassify what previously would have been SEN and deal with it as a normal part of teaching. Local authorities have also made it increasingly difficult to get an EHCP.

But schools aren't dealing with it. If they were, children wouldn't be getting so distressed that they were throwing chairs and assaulting other children would they? Would this child not be considered to have SEN under the 'reclassification'? What do the DfE now consider SEN?

YANBU and some of these replies are ridiculous. Of course your child's safety is your business and of course you shouldn't wait for your child to be hurt before bringing it up

Yes, it's not the child's fault. Yes, the school may be suffering from lack of funding. But it certainly isn't your fault, or your child's, and you are completely entitled to know what they're doing to keep your child safe.

Where did I say anything about gossiping, ostracising the child or his parents, or demanding that the boy be removed?

would you be happy working alongside someone who sometimes hits others? hoping that you stayed on his/her good side?

This is a very good point that no one seems to have answered. Why do people think that it's ok for children to fear being violently attacked at school?

OP as others have said, the school can't discuss the other child with you, but they should tell you what they are doing to keep your child safe.

Questioning whether he should be in mainstream school isn't the same as saying I don't want him there/he needs to be removed. However surely it should be questioned, surely all avenues should be considered/explored?

Lollitylollol at the thought of any other 'avenues'. There aren't any other avenues. DCs have a legal right to be educated in the mainstream, in their local primary school, just like everyone else. In consequence, special schools are rarer than hens' teeth. To get a place in a special school you need to have a severe disability or barrier to learning - to be completely non-verbal, to have severe LD's, to have significant physical challenges, for example.

Many parents of children with SN are grateful for the legal bias towards inclusion, but would actually prefer to select an education better-suited to their DC's needs. It doesn't exist. The parents of that boy may be tearing their hair out every night, desperate for him to be somewhere that will be better for him but it's highly likely that place doesn't exist.

OP as others have said, the school can't discuss the other child with you,

not specifically no, but the OP has EVERY right to ask what the school has in place in general to help children with addiional needs cope so that adverse events and violence doesn't escalate.

For example: Do they have a "safe space" for children that need to work though an episode, is the safe space accessible? (it's no good if it's also being used for 10 other things), are support staff freed up to take children to the safe space as and when it's needed…

All of these sort of things are the OPs business, and she has every right to ask and have them answered.

would you be happy working alongside someone who sometimes hits others? hoping that you stayed on his/her good side?

No I'd hope there would be support in place where ever this perosn was to keep me safe.

Which is what the school should be doing.

Children other than those with sen can be aggressive towards others. The majority of children I've taught (in secondary) who have been involved in hitting others, didn't have sen.

The majority of children I've taught (in secondary) who have been involved in hitting others, didn't have sen

I would still have questions about what was going on in the environment that was making tensions and aggressions bubble over, and where were the adults when it was happening.

The school's Behaviour Policy should be on its website. Look at that as a starting point, to get an idea of how the school aims to deal with behaviour and keep all children safe.

Whatever the cause though if a child is demonstrating violent behaviour on a regular basis then they obviously need some sort of school and the school should be working with the family and other agencies if needed to try to get that support in place.

Here's what transpired when I asked about the child with SEN who was violent to my child:

• Do the children with SEN have somewhere they can go if they're getting overwhelmed?
• Yes, the children with SEN are allowed to remove themselves and go to the book corner at any time if they are feeling overwhelmed
• The book corner that all the other children use?
• Yes, well they're not using it all the time
• The book corner was where my child was kicked repeatedly wasn't it?
• ..yes that's right..
• do you find that surprising? that you tell the child with SEN that the book corner is where they can go to get away from other children, and then they lash out when other children use it?
• ……………

We had similar with a child who was hurting my child; they were actually good friends and when he lost his temper my son was usually the nearest to it. They had one to one supervision with him, and I really felt for the other child's parent; I knew that they were really struggling with him and he had some additional needs. I needed to protect my own child though; who was starting to think it was okay for friends to hurt him he would just accept it and never retaliated.

Sadly we have had to let the friendship go; (they are not now at the same school) even though they loved spending time together we could see that my son was being affected negatively.

Have a thought for his parents, they are probably really struggling. But I agree, your main priority is to your own child.

At secondary you cannot expect to have adults there all the time and hitting was generally related to outside school stuff and not one young person constantly hitting out at others. I was pointing out that lots of children are capable of hitting and it is not nasty violent children with sen and a class full of innocents who never do anything wrong.

That sounds like a cop out haddock!

Yes the violence mostly happens outside school, but you can see it bubbling up before hand in the classroom and the school should be identifying risk of violence and taking measures to prevent it!

And also in many cases taking some responsibility about why so many of their students are walking out of the gates with a lot of pent up frustration..

Just because it's not happening IN the classroom doesn't mean that what's happening in the classroom isn't a factor or a cause, and even if it isn't, risks can be identified in the classroom before it happens in many cases.

I had a lot of experience of SEND kids in my class and I was a SALT for over 17 years before that. And we didn't ignore the statement thanks very much. The children did well. However we were always on full alert.

At one time teachers could refuse to teach children who had been violent towards them or other children with the backing of the unions and the head teachers.

This concentrated the minds of the LEA very quickly.

Maybe a return to that would help in getting the funding needed.

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I do wonder how many adults on this thread would feel frightened and anxious if a work colleague had hit other colleagues and thrown a chair through a window?
You do not have to be physically hurt for these things to have an impact on you.