To question whether this child should be in mainstream school?

[Goldenhandshake]

There is a child in my DC's year 3 class, I do not know the extent of his learning difficulties or conditions, I have spoken to his mum on a few occasions and she has stated he has ADHD, however there may be more she hasn't divulged, always assumed it was none of my business tbh. She was very open in saying he had set his siblings coat on fire previously (whilst the sibling was wearing it!).

However I am becoming increasingly worried, he has had several very violent outburst in class and the playground, he has been pulled off another child after wrapping his hands round his throat and choking the lad, has thrown a chair at the teacher and broken a window. It sounds very much like he has difficulty controlling his anger and I am now concerned for my DC's safety.

I don't want to be one of those parents who pushes out children for being different or having complex needs, but I equally do not want the worry that he will attack or harm my child.

So WIBU to request a meeting or call with the school to find out what they are doing to either limit the risk or manage this child's needs appropriately and keep the rest of the class safe?

I can only answer for my ds's. But when they have broken windows at school it has been a sign of high anxiety and stress. The key is to put in support to reduce that anxiety - anything from advance of changes in the timetable, to decrease sensory overload, to give them space to work off their anxiety, movement breaks, not using idioms when you talk to them, simplifying instructions when they are stressed etc etc. Not saying it is easy for a class teacher with thirty children in the class but it is achievable in a mainstream class particularly if TA support could be provided.

Your concern is that the school keep your child safe. Which school this child attends has nothing to do with you. With the right support very few children cannot be accommodated in mainstream. This child may be one of those few or it may be that he isn't being supported properly at the moment (support meaning more than just giving him a TA).

My DS has SEN and goes to a specialist school. Though he was as good as gold when he was at his mainstream school, very co-operative and quiet, but I pulled him out of mainstream school within a year as he had a severe language disorder and didn't think him being in a mainstream school would give him that support.

I wouldn't particularly care if the child was in mainstream school or not. So YABU to ask that question. Though I would be worried about my child's safety, so are not BU in that regard. But then again, I would assume that the school will be dealing with the child's needs and hope all is well, I wouldn't think too much deep into it.

Some children may be better off elsewhere ( like my own) but that is a different issue.

Exactly, mainstream school resources are already limited and overstretched, government cutbacks have meant that parents needing and EHCP and specialist school for their child have to jump through hoops and wait for panels and meetings to happen, it does not suddenly happen. I say this as a parent of a dd 9 with ASD who is in a specialist ASD school and my close friend is going through the same thing is the ds in the op, he has been excluded from 2 mainstream schools, has an EHCP and a dx of Autism. They are having to wait for panels and the LEA to get their arse into gear. At the moment her ds is at a fantastic PRU, they are looking at a private ASD school specialising in HFA, none of the local special schools can meet his academic and ASD needs.

it's not the op's problem where this child goes and i hate the attitude "wait until he hits yours, then complain"!
would you be happy working alongside someone who sometimes hits others? hoping that you stayed on his/her good side?
the op has every right to put her own child's safety first- as a pp said let the other child's mother worry about whether the school is failing him.

How exactly does a school 'manage' a child who throttles other children and throws chairs through windows?

They are able to spot when he is beginning to lose it (you don't get to that point with no warning whatsoever)
They help the parent to get a statement
He has a 1:1 who knows him and is able to handle him (eg. remove him from the situation)
They figure out strategies for break time

My dsis is a teacher and she has often observed teachers who just do things without thinking it through which will wind up kids in the class eg. activities with a lot of noise or moving around, which are hideous for ASD kids. This is the teacher's/ school's fault.

There are plenty of ways schools and teachers can make environments better for SEN kids, and sometimes they are not doing them (often they are), so it is perfectly acceptable to question whether the school is doing enough.

They also have to wait months for the schools to collect evidence to support an EHCP, or that they cannot meet the child's needs, they have to put all the measures they can first, if they are not working then they go back to the LEA. This takes time, is not just sudden, the school in the op may be gathering evidence for this boys EHCP or that they are not able to meet his needs.

longdiling parents and gossip were half the problem. Ds hadn't hurt any of the children whose parents started the petition, the two children he did hurt were incredibly understanding and supportive of ds's needs and worked quietly with me and the school to pressure the LA to fund even more support for ds. It was never about a witch hunt in their eyes just a young boy with autism not getting enough of the support he needed.
We had an horrific time in Primary tbh, gossip and exclusion abound some were even jealous that ds had 1 to 1 support (that was keeping their children safe) as they deemed it "unfair".Ds's teacher had to physically prevent a father getting to ds as he believed ds had given his ds a bruise (his own ds was on child protection and was later removed when he punched him to the ground in public) and we had to call the police as he threatened to firebomb the house

Well, my DS is having a similar problem with a boy in his year (3). We have had to speak to the school about it a couple of times.

The important thing is to focus on your own child, what is happening to him and what he needs, plus what you want from the school. I really would avoid any hint of demonising the other child or saying what should be happening to him, except in relation to any specific and very serious incident. Be prepared to find out your son may not be behaving perfectly well himself, or is contributing to the issue in some way-we did.

People are very quick to say that the school is 'not managing him' and what not, but really - I know there is specialist training available to handle violent children, but how can a teacher, who has trained to teach mainstream, non-violent dc, teach 30 kids and keep an eye on one volatile dc at the same time, and be there all the time, watching over him, to manage any outbursts? It's just not possible.

Even if the class has a TA. You'd have to be standing right by him to stop him throwing a chair, wouldn't you? I have every sympathy for the school in this situation.

how can a teacher, who has trained to teach mainstream, non-violent dc, teach 30 kids and keep an eye on one volatile dc at the same time, and be there all the time, watching over him, to manage any outbursts? It's just not possible.

They should be getting him an EHCP and a 1:1. schools get funding to do this.

No kid just throws a chair, even a violent one. There is an outburst, an argument and then it kicks off. The TA should be watching him like a hawk if he hasn't yet got a 1:1 otherwise the school is failing the other children.

There will be something causing the outbursts. You don't just manage the outbursts, you find out what led up to them.

I'm really not anti teachers or anti schools - the opposite. As I said, my dsis and other close friends are teachers. And from them, some of the stuff that goes on on the 'inside' is shocking. It is perfectly acceptable to question things.

Even if the class has a TA. You'd have to be standing right by him to stop him throwing a chair, wouldn't you? I have every sympathy for the school in this situation.

Again, the point that is being missed here, is that the school should be making adjustments to allow the child to access education, which would reduce the triggers which are causes the stress/overwhelming or whatever triggers there are that lead to the behavior.

It is not about catching a chair as it has been thrown, its about putting in the support throughout the day so the child can access education without being under so much pressure they lose control.

Christ, that's awful insanity sad some parents can get very pitchfork-y about stuff like this. They whip themselves up into a frenzy and make the situation worse, not to mention forgetting that there's a child at the centre of it. And there are usually 29 other children whose needs are not being met because resources, time, energy are focused on one child. I have been the CT in this situation and it is not easy. Even with a knowledgeable teacher with experience in SEND, a skilled TA implementing advice and strategies from visiting experts, things still go wrong. There is an underlying tension in the classroom which never goes away. I have every sympathy with parents here. However you cannot go in all guns blazing. You can only report the effect on your DC.

Nothing ever happens out of the blue there will be a build up, a time when with the right intervention the situation can be diffused. There were known trigger points with ds and so the school ensured that there were preparation and warnings beforehand and the support at hand to ensure that either things went smoothly or ds was elsewhere at the time of the trigger. His TA could spot when he was getting wound up and there would be the opportunity to go elsewhere to calm himself doing something he liked.It can be done it's labour intensive though and school need the support and funding available for it to happen.

insan1tyscartching Are you kidding me?!! There are parents like that in real life?!! DS and I must of been extremely fortunate then when he was at his mainstream school. His classmates were lovely and the parents were hugely supportive, they were the ones who comforted me when I was worried about DS. I was so sad when I moved him (he was 5) but couldn't compromise his severe language skills.

My God insanity, I hope things have improved for you and your child now.

Wind makes a good point, I know that some of the kids in my dc's school have form for winding up children with anger issues/sen. I also can't help but think demonising children like this kind of gives your own child carte blanche to be as unpleasant to them as they like.

This kid is in Y3. Why does he not yet have a statement? It may take long, but not that long, unless this has only just started up.

derxa really? Or do you like thinking that? If teachers and so forth were spending all their time and energy, resources on that one child, their won't be billions of parents who are fighting for their child's needs.

I have a friend who works in a specialist school 1-1 with a child who has violent outbursts. The school are not automatically failing him. Although actions can be taken to reduce violent outbursts, some children may continue to have them no matter what a school is doing.
And I be worried too OP.

Al ot of the time the school lie and activly pretend they are coping.

God only knows why.