To want to tell this girl's mum about how nasty she has been to DD?

[MurphyJim]

DD has just started secondary school. She has gone up to secondary school with a group of friends that she spent most of her primary school years hanging round with. One of them, I'll refer to her as G, is very much the head of the group of friends and has been unkind to DD quite a bit over the years. Mainly low level nastiness such as telling others in the group not to talk to DD, or making fun of DD and getting others to laugh at her. She is very manipulative.

G's mum is, unfortunately, one of those mums who thinks her DD is absolutely perfect and is the first to get on the phone to, or approach, the mum of any child who has made a tiny or perceived slight towards her child. I have heard of it happening many a time throughout primary school, and she has phoned me a couple of times in the past about things such as my DD not being her DD's partner in PE and her DD being upset.

Anyway, today it's G's birthday and she has had a huge party/disco in a hall, followed by a sleepover with several friends. She has told DD since they went back to school 3 weeks ago that she was inviting everyone except DD, as she doesn't want DD there. And true to her word she invited the rest of their friendship group, as well as every other new friend DD has made at secondary school. And didn't invite DD.

This in itself was upsetting enough for DD. However all through the party this evening G has repeatedly sent DD texts with photos of her and all of DD's friends having fun at the party with captions such as "I love my besties". She also tried to facetime DD several times throughout the party, presumably to rub it in DD's face that she wasn't there! DD sensibly ignored the texts and calls, but was understandably very upset.

I am so angry about it all and feel like giving this girl's mum a call or a text tomorrow just to let her know about how upset DD is by G's behaviour. Especially as the mum is always the first person to complain and to kick up a huge fuss if her DD is upset.

WIBU to contact the mum? I don't want to make things worse for DD.

No don't contact the mother directly, it's most likely that it will go in the opposite direction to the one you hope for, ie the mother will be behind her own dd and the dd will respond in kind.

Go to the school, hopefully they have a decent anti cyber bullying policy - and someone like Cauli.

I offered advice to the op as have many people without providing a CV . I don't feel I need any secondary school experience to say that I would be disappointed, as a parent, if a teacher lied to me about an incident my child was involved in.

This actually happened to me all through my first year secondary school. I actually ended up moving schools in my second year due to this. Your DD is very wise ignoring the calls, facetime etc. If I was her, I'd get away from G, and I would say try to stay friends with the other girls, but if this G is as manipulative as you say, she will probably turn them against her.

If she's interested in Dance, Sport etc maybe sign her up so she can meet like-minded people.

DON'T get the mum/school involved as this will make it worse for your dd in the long run

Hope it all works out.

So what would you do then?

Cauliflower clearly is very very experienced. I'd screen shot her posts and take them to school with me! The school may suggest handling it just as she said but if they are out of their depth I'm sure they would be love to have some tried and tested ammo under their belt. This kind of bullying has really come to the forefront in recent years and I'd bet the school have their finger on the pulse more than many people might think. Things have come so far in the last 10-15 years

Bumsex, the school wouldn't really be lying about the incident though would they? only how it came to their knowledge. What matters is g's behavior, not how she got caught

Cauli´s approach is great, but presumably she is not working at the school your daughter goes to, so her approach and the way she sees it panning out, may very well not be what happens in this situation. Also, the conversations she portrays are great, but as I´m sure most people are aware, the conversation we have in head are not always the conversations as they turn out in real life. I still think you should tell the school, but be prepared for all eventual outcomes.

Something like this happened to me with one of my DC. When the mother was confronted (after loads of incidents) with proof she went ape, saying everyone was jealous and that everyone (including teachers) had conspired against her DD.

You will be playing right into this girl's hands if you make a song and dance of how upset your daughter was.

Rise above it.

Poor Dd, so hard. I remember a week at school at 14, being told repeatedly I couldnt go to a party by the cool/cruel girls, then on friday them saying i was invited after all, they had just been winding me up supposedly. Turned up at party and they slammed the door in my face. I could hear them laughing behind the door. After that i couldn't be bothered with the emotional roller coaster any more and just ignored them - it was such a relief - but I had to go thru it before I understood that. Your dd sounds like she knows already and just strategies to help her cut them out of her life. (Interestingly one of them tried to put me down on FB recently - she is still a cow and I haven't seen her in 20 years, but one matured and became one of my best friends.)

I would tell school - I bet they have an internet use/abuse policy and will take cyber-bullying quite seriously (did you and dd sign a behaviour contract at start of term?). No point in telling mum - even if she is a horror (and she might not be - it is just hard to hear about your kids being horrors - a dear mum I know had a dd who was awful for a couple of years), she will struggle not to defend her child.

Oh and there are lits of good books and resources for you and her about how to deal with all this friendship crap - have a look on the Mighty Girl website

The issue should not lie with the reporting of it, but with the behaviour that has happened. The person reporting it should have confidentiality - the power should be tipped back in their favour when they are at their lowest and feeling isolated and bullied.

Yes DD would be advised to make new friends and hopefully gradually the group will disperse - normally by March/April of year 7 things are stable - but that is a long term thing. Kids can't see that far in advance. Many struggle to see past the end of the week. I would say she needs support and protection now. Although it's bending the truth to say that others have reported it, the bottom line is that the behaviour happened, so the focus should be on dealing with that.

Anyway, I do get your point that total honesty is the way forward, and in nearly all situations I would agree. But I think the means justify the ends on this one. Always very happy to hear alternative ways of dealing with things that have the same outcome of course.

I agree with Cauli's careful approach and neutralising the situation - her language is dissembling/ambiguous rather than dishonest - we often have to word things in life that are not strictly truthful, surely.

Op, I think we would all love an update on how this turns out once you have news. Just so we can put it in our experience/knowledge banks

Does anyone remember the educating Essex episode where the cyber bully sisters sat waiting to find out if they were going to have to face the police? It was just the short, sharp shock that was necessary. G may need something like this before her behavior really spirals

all hail Queen Cauliflower

Superb advice

I am glad that I am not the only one who read Cauli's post and felt uncomfortable that it involved a teacher telling lies to both parents and children

Can't see any lies!!

Nothing wrong with the things she's saying to get the truth

Do you think Bully will just come clean? Do you think she even knows the truth? The others may rather be next to her rather than against her - and actually be relieved she's taken down a few pegs??

Any news from OP? She seems to be strangely silent, or have I missed a name change?

No I checked in to see if there was an update too. Maybe we'll hear something later

I am planning to print this thread off and discuss with my DD who also just started secondary school.

I'd be furious on my DD's behalf, but I think I'd be stressing to my DD how unhappy the bullying girl must be to behave like this, so that my DD didn't feel like a victim. The bully's behaviour can only affect its intended victim if the victim only sees things from their own point of view. The bully is suffering too - from her mum's poor judgement - phoning about PE partners instead of pointing out that it's fine for DD to pick different partners etc. This unfortunate girl is being misguided and is clearly suffering - as pp's have said, she spent a lot of time at the party being nasty; that won't make her feel good. So both girls need support. The bully is obviously either very jealous of OP's DD or incredibly insecure.

I'd be doing a lot of talking through the reasons that people behave badly and building up my DD so she can think this girl is silly and boring - because of the conditions she live in - rather than a villain who must be avenged. Unless she's having a horrific time at school I don't think I'd involve the school. I would if it got worse though.

I don't think I'd involve the school. I would if it got worse though.

Bullies rely on people keeping quite - why play there game?

Seriously this girl needs help and not speaking up will prevent her receiving any. She is also making DD life a misery - that can't continue.

Sometimes teens need adults to step in.

I certainly have and would again

My DC know I have their backs and would seek to rectify any situation.

If the facts are true this a deeply unpleasant situation generated by a very manipulative and cunning girl, but not one for the school to be involved in, yet. Try some of the very sensible suggestions on here first before involving the school. Unfortunately, like school parking, when bullying is mentioned, common sense goes out of the window.
I too find CauliflowerSqueeze's casual disregard for truth when attempting to extract confessions from children, (not hardened criminals), and parents, deeply disconcerting.
Her justification that:
the means justify the ends(?) on this one; it may also be untrue but
on balance a white lie to protect and deal with it is warranted'
is Machiavellian; she has also made the assumption that DD's mother's account is correct and proceeded on that basis, without investigating the facts first.
From what the mother has said it was the actions, ie excluding her from the party and sending pictures to make her jealous, rather than the actual messages,that were unpleasant. It also took place in the first weeks of term, outside school hours, therefore not a history of harassment and bullying to investigate. Threatening a child with exclusion for 'a whiff of nastiness' seems to me to be a form of bullying; certainly some children will 'confess' when threatened to avoid further trouble, and the truth will never be discovered.
The fact that CauliflowerSqueeze has received 'zero training' in investigating bullying is not a surprise.