To want to tell this girl's mum about how nasty she has been to DD?

[MurphyJim]

DD has just started secondary school. She has gone up to secondary school with a group of friends that she spent most of her primary school years hanging round with. One of them, I'll refer to her as G, is very much the head of the group of friends and has been unkind to DD quite a bit over the years. Mainly low level nastiness such as telling others in the group not to talk to DD, or making fun of DD and getting others to laugh at her. She is very manipulative.

G's mum is, unfortunately, one of those mums who thinks her DD is absolutely perfect and is the first to get on the phone to, or approach, the mum of any child who has made a tiny or perceived slight towards her child. I have heard of it happening many a time throughout primary school, and she has phoned me a couple of times in the past about things such as my DD not being her DD's partner in PE and her DD being upset.

Anyway, today it's G's birthday and she has had a huge party/disco in a hall, followed by a sleepover with several friends. She has told DD since they went back to school 3 weeks ago that she was inviting everyone except DD, as she doesn't want DD there. And true to her word she invited the rest of their friendship group, as well as every other new friend DD has made at secondary school. And didn't invite DD.

This in itself was upsetting enough for DD. However all through the party this evening G has repeatedly sent DD texts with photos of her and all of DD's friends having fun at the party with captions such as "I love my besties". She also tried to facetime DD several times throughout the party, presumably to rub it in DD's face that she wasn't there! DD sensibly ignored the texts and calls, but was understandably very upset.

I am so angry about it all and feel like giving this girl's mum a call or a text tomorrow just to let her know about how upset DD is by G's behaviour. Especially as the mum is always the first person to complain and to kick up a huge fuss if her DD is upset.

WIBU to contact the mum? I don't want to make things worse for DD.

I agree with many PPs that contacting the mother, tempting as it may be, would probably be useless at best and could potentially backfire. G might use it as an excuse to escalate the bullying. I could also imagine her telling her mother that the FaceTime requests were intended as friendly overtures, that the girls really wanted to include your DD, blah blah blah. Given the mother's history, it seems unlikely that she would believe G has behaved badly.

I would certainly encourage your DD to block G's number and to seek out new friendships. I would also contact the school. However, I disagree with the strategy someone outlined above (telling G that her friends had approached teachers because they were uncomfortable with what had happened). There is no need to lie to G/her parents or to create additional drama. The facts speak for themselves, and I would expect the teachers to cope with the situation honestly and appropriately.

Good luck, OP.

What a lovely girl "G" is sadly though I've seen it before and it's often the children who's parents think the sun always comes out when they shit who have bullies for kids.

Does the school have a cyber bullying policy that extends to offsite activity including pupils?

Could you just 'nicely' pre warm the mum that "you understand G doesn't want to be friends with DD, and know she advocates kindness after all the calls you've received because DD didn't choose "G" as her PE partner - so you are just giving her the heads up that after the texts her DD sent yours you are approaching the school re cyber bullying so it's not a shock when they contact her"

You don't have to report. But sometimes give someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves.

And YY to screenshotting in case.

The school will not do anything about stuff that's happening outside school. So all the "screen shot and show the school" brigade are also wasting their time.

Again I speak from experience. It was only when DD's bully threatened to wait for and harm her in school, that they got involved.

The school should get involved BitOut, as cyber bullying always spills into school.
My dd was bullied over the Internet and the school was very interested.
Sorry your dd is going through this op, some girls can be so fucking vile.

I agree that it would be nicer all round if you could just say to the bully's mother that the victim and her mother were very upset. However, this doesn't protect the victim at all. It's nicer for the victim (aged 11 remember) to be afforded some protection if at all possible. Very often they are terrified about repercussions and so shielding them from this is really important. It also gives them confidence that it didn't come from them. Some get very worried about going home and what might happen on the bus etc. It is not designed to take revenge on the bully but for her to reflect that perhaps not everyone felt comfortable with what was going on. The honest route would lead the bully to go back to her gang "you'll never believe it, DD is a fucking little snitch - we hate grasses - let's do x y and z now". Plus G's mother could then say "bloody hell, DD's mum shit stirring in school again" etc. She can't get annoyed about a group of anonymous worried 11 year olds talking to their teacher. I think on balance a white lie to protect and deal with it is warranted. It allows the victim to not have to "be a grass" and relax. Since no names are ever given, nobody knows who "reported" it.

I also often say to kids "I know exactly what's happened, so really you can relax, you just need to tell me the truth. Have a seat outside for a minute and I will listen to you shortly".
The truth of it is often that I don't have a clue what has happened, but it provides the child with a nice easy "she knew anyway, there was no point in lying" and stops them getting into more trouble. It stops them from having to follow the party line if the group has decided on the story to tell. And so let's you get to the heart of the problem quickly.

Saying things like "no I don't think your daughter is a bully, but it is bullying behaviour, may also be untrue. But it helps ensure the parent realises it's not personal thing and that you want the best for her. Which teachers do I think. The ultimate aim is that G realises what she does is wrong and stops, and that DD does not have to be involved as far as possible, in my opinion. I've actually never had a bully parent be unsupportive, I have to say. You reassure that it's out of character and that if there is no other issue it won't be raised again etc.

foxes - no, zero training - just experience.

This is bullying, I would forward texts to the mother, tell your dd to delete and block her every avenue. You could also inform the school. She sounds like a nasty mmmm, will probably become a nasty adult.

Yes definitely inform the school, as the bullying could be at school too.

If it continues, I would also go to the Police, as its cyber bullying.

I can understand not saying who has given you the info but blatantly making up that other members of the group had reported it and are therefore 'on side' with the victim when they are actually also involved isn't on - neither is lying to parents. I would be annoyed if I was trying to get to the bottom of a bullying issue and teachers were bending the truth about what had happened. It would just make my job as a parent a lot harder as I would naturally assume what the school was telling me was fact.
A lot of people seem to think it's a great way to handle it but I have to respectfully disagree.

This is bullying. Screenshot everything, print it all off and go straight to the school and tell them you want it dealt with. They'll call the bitch of a mother in then.

Cauliflower I love your approach.

You are so right about being in the right position - no mention of lack of invitation, no response and evidence. Social media makes it a lot easier to catch these days, although worse in other ways.

Plus love the it was the other girls that brought it to my attention... so good.

Just read Cauliflower's post - this is an excellent way of dealing with it. All teachers should adopt this approach.

Having been on MN for a few years, it's depressing to hear how many children and mothers there are like that ie think their dc is an angel when actually they are sneaky, unkind bullies. All three of my dcs have had those types in their class. With ds1 I was naive and didn't handle it very well. This mum did a masterful job in getting my son excluded from the social circle as she was very manipulative. He was very lonely at primary school. When I found my dd became close to a girl in year 2 who could be bitchy and unkind with a mum who described herself as a 'tiger mum' who'd never let anyone hurt her children, I encouraged my dd to find nicer friends with nicer mums. Now in year 4 I watch the girl in the playground and thank god I got dd away before she got hurt.

So, bum, how many years of experience in secondary education do you have?

I'd take Cauli's approach. It leaves no victims. It's the least harsh and disruptive way to deal with things. Situations can often be precarious. Not all parents are supportive for a start.

None . How many do you have?
Didn't realise I had to have experience as a secondary school teacher to have an opinion on how I would feel AS A PARENT if a teacher was to bend the truth when speaking to me about my child being bullied.

I appreciate the problem with protecting the victim, but have to agree with bs that it seems very problematic for an hoy to say that other girls have expressed concern when they haven't. Apart from anything else it misrepresents the problem - which may be that the victim has no supporters at all. I would definitely want to know if my dc were the bully - but I don't think it would be good to tell me untruths about what other girls have said.

Anyway, as to whether dd herself should confront g as some have suggested. I think if you can do it calmly that can be a very strong strategy - but realistically many yr 7s would not be able to, and it could make things worse if it goes wrong. So it is not the right way to go for everyone. Eg g may respond by pointing out all the things dd has supposedly done to g - and then it just escalates. I think the walkaway can also be a strong strategy - it just depends on the individual personality of the dd. And, curiously, bursting into tears in front of everyone can also 'work' - sometimes the onlookers are horrified at what they've done by going along with it and turn against the bully. (But sometimes it just makes them behave even more unkindly).

I think you have to take the approach that is most 'you' when dealing with these things - although suggesting techniques, including quiet confrontation, is also very helpful, so that a dc feels there are various possible strategies.

bumsex no problem disagreeing.

The victim's first comment is normally "I don't want her to know I told anyone", so if you say to the bully "I've had this reported but I'm not saying who by" then of course they will believe that the victim reported it, and will go after them. I'm not sure how this could be avoided unless you said it was not the victim who came forward. But then that would be a lie.

Yep think you need to act and think
Outside the box with children and teenagers and that's just what cauli is doing.

The best outcome is for the bully to stop. The innocent protected and all move on positively. That may well take some manipulation and careful handling of all parties.

Wish every school had a cauli.

I've got 16 years experience in primary, but none in secondary except from my own kids.

I'm just curious as to why you'd think you have a more valid view and advice than a very experienced MNer? Her method clearly works.

Wow what a bitch! I would tell her.

I wonder where kids learn this behaviour, surely it must be from their parents?!

Please don't contact the mother. This will let the bully know she has one. They like the power. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Please use your energy and emotions building your daughter back up. Don't waste it on people that hurt her. Use your time to make her feel better and look at ways of moving forward , such as joining new after school or lunch time activities. Even if she could find something for outside the school environment would be better.
People like the bully rarely change or have remorse , they may do years later but certainly not now.
It's a pattern she's been in for ages and with her mothers knowledge.
Concentrate on your child and let the other girl continue on and hopefully wait for karma to bite.

I agree no point going to the mother, I would however show the screenshots to the parents of DD's friends who were at the sleepover and expose the ringleader to them as a cyber bully . I would be horrified if I found out that my child had been at a sleepover where this had happened and they would not be going to any events hosted by that family again.

Won not one obviously

I remember ds1 having an incident with a year 10 when he had just started year 7. His head of house said the school would like to get involved in things that happen outside because it does affect the children inside the school but their hands were tied as they didn't have any power really. If a parent was uncooperative and obstructive they couldn't act. Fortunately the year 10's parents gave the school carte Blanche but I rather suspect this won't happen in this case.