To trust dads, more than men without children, at parks? :(

[debson]

I feel bad about this, but I have no clue if it's a normal way to feel and I can normally guess what Mumsnet would say so don't bother, but I really don't know about this.

I was in the park earlier with DC (5 and 9) I always sit on the bench closest to the only exist.

There have been a couple of times when a father (who clearly has DC at the park) help youngest DD onto the monkey bars for example, then just go with their kids on to a different bit of equipment. We are a friendly village and do tend to interact with the DC (if it's obvious they go to same school, etc.)

However, I've had it once where (and this is with 9 year old DD and no contact involved) a man was pointing to bits of the rope that DD should put her foot onto (you know, to help her get to the top) and I went over and made casual convo and he had no children there

Is it wrong to have not even thought for a second about that dad, but felt uneasy about that man for the rest of the time while we were there?

It's not odd for someone without any children with them to go to the park and sit in a bench for example. Parks are for people of all ages and some people like sit and admire the world going by.
Ever been people watching when you're sat in a bar on holiday? Same sort of thing.

But I would find it odd for someone to go on to the play area bit and start watching the children closely/interacting with them. That would irk me.

A CRB isn't worth the paper it's written on

The CRB, now DBS check means the person hasn't been been found guilty of stuff in the past. It also means that nobody they live with is dodgy as well. Of course is doesn't tell you about future behaviour, what could? Down that direction lies people saying things like "well, why would you risk having a man around children?"

Yup Tiggy.

In fact all it means is you haven't been caught up to that point. The woman at the council who did mine made a big deal of how ridiculous it was 😂

My local park has the play area fenced off, but the swings are in the middle of about five benches. I've sat on them before and received filthy looks from parents despite the fact that the swings are right next to the path going through the entire park towards the park cafe. I don't go to the park anymore :(

DH is a childminder so we're both well aware how difficult it can be for men around children.

However, YANBU Op. I, too, would be wary of anyone, male or female, without children in a play park. That's a natural reaction and has been for decades, not a new thing.

30 years ago, I was trying to find a work friend's house on the other side of town. I knew she had a young sister and, when I saw the little girl walking home from school, I approached her. She ran off to her mother and I immediately spoke to mum to reassure her who I was and to apologise for scaring them.

I can also remember refusing to speak to strangers who approached me at that age.

My uncle was childless, used to love watching the kids play, and also got himself a job as a lifeguard in the local Lido.
He was also a prolific child molester. It happens, of course it happens.

They did try to introduce a database that could be updated to replace the CRB check and had to abandon it because of the uproar from the likes of Philip Pullman.
So the DBS is, unfortunately, the best we have.

I'd be worried in the same scenario OP, especially about the man talking to the child, giving her advice on where to place her feet, helping her reach the top....... It's all building trust which is a tactic of grooming.

I work with sex offenders and victims of child abuse though so I may be more cautious than others.

I think it's very sad and very wrong that a man in a park or interacting with a child not his own in an innocent context is considered a pervert. It says a lot that is wrong with the sick minds that make such horrible assumptions.

I think you trust your instincts. It is odd, IMO, for a man on his own to be in an area - or very near an area - where the children's play equipment is. There are plenty of other spaces / seats in most parks for others to use.
Either of the men you describe connecting with your child would be a bit odd. After all most children are accompanied so surely the parents can do the helping etc.
However either man might or might not pose a threat. Stranger danger is actually more rare than danger (as in abuse) within the child's own family.

I do know what you mean. I suppose it depends on the reason he was in the park, doesn't it?

We have a play ground nearby and other parents are always helping children on and off see-saws, giving children a push on the swing etc. if they happen to be close by and the child's parent isn't immediately available (dealing with a sibling across the park for example). Maybe it depends on the area we live in, but I wouldn't think twice about another child's dad giving one of my children a lift onto a piece of equipment. I'd thank them for it.

Given that taking the kids to the park is one of the most boring things ever, I would think any adult without children who decided to simply go and hang out at the park and start randomly helping strange children is an absolute nutcase.

It's not like childfree adults suddenly go "You know what, with this free time I think I'll go to softplay and simply watch children play, maybe offer a hand, that's a perfectly good use of my time."

Weird.

Not 'paedophile' weird, just weird-weird. Like "going to start talking to me and following me around telling me all the names of their socks" weird.

TheSparrowhawk
The male adults in schools are CRB checked BoneyBack

I know, but someone in a park wouldn't know whether the person was someone that worked in a school.

I'm not going to repeat Jacques and TiggyD's point but if you are so worried about childless men that you believe that there are places that they shouldn't be able to go because they might be paedophiles, surely a school would be high on your list.

Did no one read about the man at legoland? He sexually assaulted two young girls on the pretence of offering to help them get up a slide.

For context; imo it's acceptable for a man to be in a park

But something to be wary of if he is in a PLAY park on his own.

You don't sit and think 'oh I'll just head to the Playpark to go and watch the kids play'

Why anyone would do that is ridiculous

tanith
to quote you
However, YANBU Op. I, too, would be wary of anyone, male or female, without children in a play park. That's a natural reaction and has been for decades, not a new thing.
why have you included 'female' in that accusation?
It is not a natural reaction to lump women on their own as 'paedophiles' or to suggest that it has been that way for decades as a natural reaction.
I can assure you that when my son was young and in playgrounds if someone (always male) looked the slightest bit dodgy it was always apparent and 'female' lone people were never considered any danger at all

talk about over-reaction - and a sad state of affairs that in true MN fashion most of you are 'other'ing childless people as 'sick individuals' without any proof they are.

Female sex offenders are very rare: 96 percent of the sex assaults reported in 1999 involved male perpetrators.
just saying.

So only 17 years out of date, data, also men don't really report etc...

Also it's worth noting unless the child calls him Dad he might not be Dad.

Male babysitter, family friend, uncle - they may not have their own children and could be abusing a child.

I understand the worry but if you are closely supervising your child then neither man could do any harm.

It depends on the park really. I wouldn't find it odd to see a lone man in many on my local parks as they have put in outdoor gym equipment and parkour equipment which is meant for older teens and adults, right next to the children's play equipment, so quite often I see single men or a few men without kids using the equipment which kids might also be using and interacting with them. Just down the road there's a special playground for the elderly right next to the swings for the school kids. A park we visit in a nearby city has four pokestops in so you get a lot of single men hanging around by the fences catching pokemon - if a kid started talking to them I wouldn't think it weird if they talked back etc.

I do find myself thinking twice though about DD interacting with men as opposed to women, which makes me feel unreasonable. Today she asked if she could go to the park with her friends, I assumed it was the friends' grandma taking them but she said it was their dad and I had to think hard about whether to say yes or not whereas if it was the grandma I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

Do the same rules apply for child free people at soft play as playgrounds? Are they ok for random adults to hang out alone in or is it just playgrounds?

I understand the worry but if you are closely supervising your child then neither man could do any harm.
Except they are starting to build a relationship with the child, and the stranger at the park becomes the man who helps at the park who mummy chats too, and then becomes someone they know.
That's how grooming works. It's not simply a case of watching your child closely, it's naive to think you can prevent them being harmed that way.

"Oh it's so sad that lone men can't go hang around playgrounds"

No what's sad is the amount of children who have been sexually abused.

He was not sat on a park bench eating his sandwiches, he was in the play park interacting with the children.