To trust dads, more than men without children, at parks? :(

[debson]

I feel bad about this, but I have no clue if it's a normal way to feel and I can normally guess what Mumsnet would say so don't bother, but I really don't know about this.

I was in the park earlier with DC (5 and 9) I always sit on the bench closest to the only exist.

There have been a couple of times when a father (who clearly has DC at the park) help youngest DD onto the monkey bars for example, then just go with their kids on to a different bit of equipment. We are a friendly village and do tend to interact with the DC (if it's obvious they go to same school, etc.)

However, I've had it once where (and this is with 9 year old DD and no contact involved) a man was pointing to bits of the rope that DD should put her foot onto (you know, to help her get to the top) and I went over and made casual convo and he had no children there

Is it wrong to have not even thought for a second about that dad, but felt uneasy about that man for the rest of the time while we were there?

The men who abused me were also family friends. I'm aware that trusted men are more dangerous. But a man who chats to children in the park becomes a trusted man, doesn't he?

Soubriquet, it is the thousands of men who abuse children that have created that situation. But best to blame neurotic women eh?

Read it again will you? I never called any woman neurotic. I said it was ok to be cautious but not let it cloud every movement you make. And then gave an example as to why.

Laiste, I've just realised that first paragraph sounds sarcastic. It wasn't - it was "sort of nodding along, I can see that".

Sparrow, honestly thinking back, no. But since I always travel in groups or safely by car, I've clearly absorbed the message anyway. I'm just saying that (especially if you live somewhere "safe"), overt messages can pass you by, IYSWIM.

It must do be hard to raise a kid with the attitudes of "stranger danger" but also "you need to be able to socialise with people". My message to my kids is that most people are absolutely fine and well-meaning, but a small minority are not so just bear that in mind. Keep your wits about you. They are teenagers now so that advice holds good for travelling on the metro on their own and going out and about in the city on their own or with friends. If you have a doubt get in another train carriage, cross the street, don't make eye contact or engage in conversation, avoid rather than confront. In the playground situation described my antennae would have been twitching - I would probably have said something like: "We don't know who that man is and he's not another daddy." I wouldn't have reported him, I wouldn't have confronted him, but I would have noted him. I don't want my kids to be fearful, but I want them to be streetwise.

Frankleigh, are you honestly saying your mother never once expressed concern about how you were getting home, or a friend never once walked you home/walked part of the way with you?

sparrow if we argue, correctly IMO, that we don't hold whole religions culpable for the actions of a few how is ok to have your reaction to men?

All the millions of men have done what you asked to prove their innocence by doing nothing wrong.

If you're worried about your children, watch them, if you're worried about your friend walking home at night, walk with them.

Having play areas just for parents isn't a bad idea.

I don't have a problem with anyone visiting a children's park, lone man, childless people l, you name it.

Just don't touch my child for any reason.

My point, Logically, is that women are often advised to change their behaviour (eg by not walking home alone, by escorting others) so why not ask men to change their behaviour?

I'm almost the exact opposite. I would have no problem whatsoever with another person in the playground helping my child on the monkey bars or whatever if they happened to be standing closer than I am.

Whereas deep down I do feel uneasy as to why someone without children would be wandering in amongst the play equipment. (Although of course, it wouldn't necessarily be obvious if someone actually was in the playground without a child)

I can't quite believe that anyone thinks this is okay. This wasn't a man sitting on a bench having his lunch or enjoying the sunshine while children played nearby but a lone man near the play equipment talking to children. It's almost a 'Stranger Danger' scenario that you teach kids about.

I get what you're saying treacle but for me I just feel the play area is still a public place, it might have been designed for children but in theory anyone can still go there.

And as with any public place, kids need to be kept an eye on, I wouldn't be happy with anyone helping my child on equipment at a play area.

ollie I promise I'm not trying to be goady, this is a genuine question and I'm just interested in your thoughts.

Is it just the helping on a piece of play equipment or would you be angry if anyone touched your child at all. The reason I'm asking is because when a friend's child was a toddler, he wandered out of a playpark whilst she was helping her older child on a piece of equipment. A woman was leaving and as he was coming out the gate after her, she actually asked him where his mum was and if he was sure he should be going out. He said his mum was over there and admitted he wasn't allowed to leave but he walked out anyway. When my friend caught up with them a few seconds later she asked the woman why she hadn't stopped him and it turned out it was because she didn't want to touch him. She preferred to let him walk into a car park with traffic coming from both directions, than to put her hand on his arm and lead him back to safety.

I would just far rather an adult felt they could help my child if they were in danger of getting hurt, even if that was something fairly minor like falling off a climbing frame.

Thinking of the playgrounds in parks near me: they are fenced off. There are no benches inside the fences (but are benches outside). It would be odd and would make me suspicious if there was someone in there without children and I would be concerned if they then approached and talked to, or worse, helped my children. There are no reasons to be inside the fence if you don't have a young child with you. People on benches outside of fence is fine. People inside of fence interacting with random children is odd.

Also, having also been disturbed by Crimewatch about the girls at Legoland got me thinking. Someone in the park helping you child onto equiptment may use that as an opportunity to touch them inappropriately*. You watching won't necessarily stop this happening. Better for there not to be random people helping your children on the equiptment in the first place. And actually, judgy pants hoisted, I think that if your child is small enough to need helping onto equiptment, you should probably be helping them yourself.

*I have no idea if this is a thing, outside one incident at Legoland. I would expect incidents of it being reported in the media if it was. However, it has also occurred to me that it is possible that children might not realise that when being helped they were actually being touched inappropriately .

Also, all (fenced) playgrounds near me say the equipment is only for use by children under the age of 10 or 14. Therefore adults are not allowed to use the equipment at all.

No swinging on swings because you've had a stressful day. No using the play equipment as part of your workout etc.

The facilities - equipment and fenced area - are designed for and provided for children and not for adults.

It is odd for a person with no children to be in a playground. It is odd for them to interact with the children. It is normal and acceptable to be wary of that as a behaviour.
Being wary and cautious is not the same thing as pointing the finger and making accusations.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a lone adult being in a park, but a lone adult hanging around the play equipment is odd!

"Where are you off to dear?"

"Oh just going to take a walk down to the kiddies' playground to watch children and see if any need help getting on the monkey bars"

Not odd in the slightest...

I am imagine I will still be taking ds as an older teenager, possibly even an adult, to playgrounds

Lol, good luck with that! I know lots of teenagers, and I don't know any that would say yes to going to a playground with their mum. As a young adult, I wouldn't go either! (sorry mum) Why on earth would I??

Our local recreation ground has play equipment but no fenced off area. The only benches there are around the play equipment.

It seems a touch nonsensical to say that men without children can't sit down.

As a man (I get to say that legitimately!), I would never go into a children's play area to 'hang out', or look around if there were children about. I work with children so have a professional interest in play equipment, and would love a good nose round to pinch ideas but I don't. I feel it would make many parents suspicious of me and might lead to all kinds of accusations that could end badly for me. I feel a bit nervous when visiting a zoo on my own already, let alone a playground.

there was a thread about this some time ago where I reported a post that called me 'creepy' because I sometimes (as a 70 year old woman who has been a mother and now a grandmother and 5ft tall to boot) found it pleasant to sit and watch children on the play equipment even when my grandson was not with me.
It is a sad state of affairs that grandmothers (must be even harder for grandfathers) are judged for sitting minding their own business
The only criteria I would apply to adults where children are loose are that there should be no physical contact unless that is required to prevent a dangerous situation occurring (and for which one would hope the parent would be grateful)

Given the responses on the thread I am amazed that some children are allowed to go to school, what with all the single male adults there.

Chinlo - My child has very severe learning difficulties so is highly likely to enjoy playgrounds for a long time. He will also always need someone with him be it me or another carer. At one playground we go to, we sometimes see a man in his 20's with his carers. There are no playgrounds near us for adults so people make use of the available ones at quiet times.

The male adults in schools are CRB checked BoneyBack.

Both, really.

YABU as Dads can be perverts too. However YANBU in that men without kids might not know how to look after/approach a child properly.

There are dodgy people in all walks of life.

If you don't know a stranger out and about- don't leave them with your child.