To be *livid* at this? Attempted murder of man working to make women's sport fairer

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So not only did Jeska use their unfair advantage to win medals meant for female athletes, but Jeska then tries to murder the man attemting to restore fairness to women's fell running:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-womens-fell-running-champ-8891893

And yet, the BBC decide it's not relevant to the story that Jeska was born male:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

Bill, no - the proceedings are ongoing until sentencing has concluded.

I can't see anything hate-filled or transphobic in what the OP has posted? They haven't said anything that isn't true.

Ah thanks for the clarification shove

I wouldn't dream of telling you how to feel about it, of course not.

I'm also a fell runner and would not come close to the winners of either sex in a million years as I am v slow. If I was good though, and finished 2nd woman to Jeska, I personally would be absolutely raging about it.

The reporting is fucking outrageous. What are the press so afraid of.

That's very noble of you, shove, to not mind competing against those born biologically male. But I'm an athlete too, and I do mind. I mind very much. It's not like women's sport gets the same level of funding, sponsorship, coverage or even bloody participation that men's sports do, we have so very little and it seems we don't even get to keep that.

If you think it doesn't matter because it's rare, do you think it will stay that way? Sports talent scouts already go looking for kids all over the country to try to determine who will and won't make the cut in professional sports - I have to say I can all too easily imagine a near future where gender non conformity in boys is a very desirable attribute that they'll be screening for with a view to getting them into women's sports.

Could you elaborate where you have seen the transphobia, please?

Bombardier - Jeska has actually been beaten, many times, by women. There are some bloody amazing women fell runners. You wouldn't believe how strong the best are - such a great advertisement for what women can do. It's a shame it's not televised more.

I can remember a male friend of mine, who isn't shabby, being beaten by a female champion while really quite pregnant. He said it was a bit humbling.

Off topic but personally I think that the issue of trans-gender individuals and sport exposes how the nature of sport, in which the strongest/fastest/most skilful body beats the weaker/slower/less skilful one, is inherently problematic (to say the least) and is actually an important everyday factor in reinforcing the zero sum logic on which male domination and the patriarchy are based. For me there isn't a feminist way of doing sport. Non-competitive celebration of the human body in all its forms would do it for me.

Why are people upset at the reporting on the autism point? her own legal counsel are raising it as potentially relevant to sentencing, and the BBC are merely relaying that. I don't see how it is 'irresponsible'.

funny how jeska kept winning those england prizes then, how do jeskas times compare against men in his category I wonder?

can you show me some links where the top womens times beat the top mens times btw. I browsed a few but the best womens times were usually about number 20 and quitefar off the top mens times. I dont know much about fell running but it sounds amazing if the top women often beat the top men - v unlike track racing

Nothing transphobic about saying a person born as a man, with male puberty, size, development under testosterone, different body shape, different musculature etc is not the same as a born woman and has an unfair disadvantage in sports which are segregated by sex. That's not transphobic, it's logical and factual.

Shove you may not mind (not sure why) but anyway, others will. I bet. And I bet they will not want to say so because within a nano second of their mentioning that as woman born in a female body they don't want to race against someone born the opposite sex (who is still the opposite sex, because you can't change sex) they will be called transphobic. Just as you labelled this thread.

So just as I can't speak for you, you can't speak for all the other runners.

The fact this person has attempted to commit a violent crime, which males are many, many more times likely to commit than females, and yet this crime is recorded as a crime committed by a woman in the media, is really offensive and worrying.

Maybe you could start to wonder why it is OK for someone to run in a race and have an advantage and for many people to not feel able to mention this without someone wheeling out the word 'transphobic'. And why it is OK for a crime committed by a person of one sex to be recorded as a crime committed by a person of the opposite sex. Can you not see how this will have a negative impact on women?

Imagine if white males were committing a number of crime and those were being recorded as being committed by an ethnic minority? Would that be OK?

I am not transphobic, I have fear or hatred of trans people and would consider myself supportive to any trans person needing help I could give. But blatantly ignoring the facts in reporting this case is wrong.

Can't speak for fell running but I looked up triathlon result a while ago and on the sake course all 50 of the men finished ahead of the fastest woman, with a gap of several minutes between slowest man and fastest woman

Shove re "I can remember a male friend of mine, who isn't shabby, being beaten by a female champion while really quite pregnant. He said it was a bit humbling."

There will always be exceptions to rules but competitive sports are organised by sex, not gender. his is done for a reason. The exception does not disprove the fact that males have different bodies, lung capacity etc.

I'm angry that this is being reported by some as female violence. It isn't, it is another example of male violence which already isn't taken seriously enough. I'm concerned this will lead to inaccurate crime stats and show women as committing violent crimes at a higher level than they actually do.

Also I cannot see anything sensationalist or wrong with that Mirror article. It seems to quite fairly describe the facts of the case, unlike the other reports.

shove could you let me know where I've been hate-filled? Ta

Have you seen a charge sheet? They are very brief. The counts are attempted murder, abh and possessing a knife. The crown will have set out the elements of those offences and that's it. The only mental element of the offences is intent. Aggravating factors like motive are left for sentencing

You're talking bollocks.

I'm a criminal barrister - although haven't practiced for a few years - so yes I've seen a charge sheet or two.

No one pleads to attempted murder on the basis of a charge sheet. The CPS will have prepared a case file which will set out a case summary, the defendant will have agreed to as part of their plea.

Imagine if white males were committing a number of crime and those were being recorded as being committed by an ethnic minority?

Remember those forms you get when you apply for a job and have to fill in your race, religion, sexual orientation, etc for equality purposes? That's the kind of form people who are convicted of crimes fill in. Ie, all our crime statistics are based on self-reported data. HTH.

Sorry.. "I have NO fear or hatred of trans people ..."

I'm not a fell runner, but I am an adult human female and I very much mind.

"I can remember a male friend of mine, who isn't shabby, being beaten by a female champion while really quite pregnant. He said it was a bit humbling."

And did she beat all the men and win the race?

Idaho I've no idea if what you say is right, so if a white male commits a crime it can be recorded as being committed by a perosn of a different ethnicity because they said so. Seems a pretty shit system.

What about newspaper reporting, imagine if it were reported in the paper this or that community (refugees etc) had committed crimes committed by white people. Presumably you do get my point.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't mind that she's competing as a transgender individual.

So why have sex segregated sport at all. If biological advantages are going to be ignored, why do we have separate categories at all.

Trans women competing against biological women, it's a disaster for our daughters. We were making head way in girls sport. But now what's the point?

For me there isn't a feminist way of doing sport.

For me, a feminist, there is. And I play to WIN. Because I take massive, massive exception to the notion that it is not "feminine" to be competitive, to sweat, to assert oneself physically and so on. I celebrate my body by what it can achieve, which I feel is a great step forward from it being celebrated for what it looks like.

It isn't only about crime stats, it is also about public perception. Many people will read the bbc report today and now think that a woman committed a violent crime. It is already difficult to address the issue of male violence without being shouted down by NAMALT and 'women do it too.' This doesn't help.