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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

racial discrimination or AIBU???

281 replies

hollowsorrow · 21/09/2016 21:30

Hello everyone, so dh is white, i am brown and we have a 7 month old ds who looks completely white too, blonde hair, green eyes. So when i am out and about with him people(all women so far) start talking to me about my ds and then ask me if i am his nanny/caregiver. The first time i was asked i was taken aback till that time i had never actually thought about the colour difference between my ds and I. I am actually very offended and hurt when people ask me this question and I keep wondering is it just because of the skin colour or are there any other signs. Have other people had this experience and what happens if the colours reversed white women and coloured child? Anyways AIBU or are people just being racist???

OP posts:
stopfuckingshoutingatme · 23/09/2016 12:13

PigletWasPoohsFriend

The indivusal I was responding to made comments such as "You need to look up the definition of 'racism'!"

I think its a bit rich for a white person to say that to a non white person personally.

so its a bit of a leap to passively aggressively type that it means your opinion does not count

fuck me I am argumentative today!

Linning · 23/09/2016 12:27

To be fair OP, I am brown myself ( Mixed between a white mother and a black father) and it wasn't until I Au Paired for an interracial family at age 17, that I realized I could possibly have white kids. Until then, all the interracial families I had been in contact with followed the same patern as mine which mean the father or the mother was black and the other partner was white, which automatically mean they had kids with the same skin toned as me. I had never seen someone with my skin tone have children with a white person so I didn't know it could end with white children. It's really only when I met this family, who had three beautiful children (the three of them white and one even blonde with green eyes like your ds) that I realized "brown" people like me could also have white children with blond hair and green eyes.

I didn't know until then and I probably would have assumed you weren't your ds mother had I seen you with your ds. I am obviously not racist but was misinformed, as is many people regarding genetics etc...
So I disagree that people are being racist, I just think they are being a bit thoughtless and don't know much about the subject. Try not to take it personally and just confirm that you are your ds' mother. People will mostly be mortified that they assumed you were anything else but his mother.

Hugs to you OP x

Olympiathequeen · 23/09/2016 12:29

No not racism, just speaking before they engage their brain. It does look odd to see a child clearly looking different from the mother because mostly mixed race children are a pale coffe colour, so it's about expectations and norms and making assumptions.

Embarrassingly I was just chatting to my next door neighbour, who was Indian, many years ago and almost asked if her children were adopted (dad white British) but stopped myself. It later became clear they were her natural children. My toes still curl at how offensive that would have sounded Shock

legzakimbotheatre · 23/09/2016 12:30

Wow this thread is sad. Why are people so invested in telling the OP that it is definitely not racist? Some comments are quite nasty where they could just state their own experience and put their opinion in a nicer way.

I don't have children but feel that if the OP feels like it may have involved some sort of racial prejudice or stereotyping then perhaps it did. I used to have people approaching me all the time to ask "where am I from", "where am I from originally" " yes but your parents are from X arent they?" etc. Sometimes it was ignorance, sometimes it was meant with bad intent/racially charged. Sometimes, if I feel the person is actually approaching in a nice manner, I answer them how they want answered. Other times I choose to say I'm from "X UK town" and leave it at that. You have no idea how many times people have gotten aggressive with me, shouted in my face etc. when I haven't answered the way they wanted.

Just because white women have been asked the same/similar question does not mean that when the OP was asked it was not racial. I suppose each asker would have their own intent no? With my example above though, I definitely felt that there was some sort of bad/racial intent - and most often that was proved later on in the conversation.

People keep saying that she has used the word "coloured" and that makes her racist. Well it really depends on your background or nationality. There are many ex-colonial countries where people still today use that word to describe themselves and others. I'm from the UK but my parents used this word as it was how they grew up describing themselves. I had no idea that some people found it offensive until I was at high school. Also, if you are describing yourself, are you not allowed to use any word you like?

People are also saying that it's not common for a dark skinned person to have a light skinned child? This seems really strange to me! A large percentage of my family are dark skinned parents with light skinned children - we all live in the UK. I understand that some may not be aware, but everyone has the capability of being polite.

I feel that it may be rude and ignorant, sometimes may be racist. It's definitely entitled though, to just walk up to someone and ask them questions like these based on the colour of their skin. Plenty of other topics for small talk. I always thought people striding across shops to ask my background and demanding that I answer them correctly was entitled.

It also seems that people don't actually look at the features of the child, just the colour of their skin and hair. One of my family members is dark skinned and her child is light. They have exactly the same face though, expressions etc. so in my opinion the child takes after the mother, rather than the white father.

Sorry this was long....

JinkxMonsoon · 23/09/2016 12:32

People just can't get their heads around mixed race children still. It may be the 21st century but... Hmm

My children are mixed white/Asian but look very white (albeit tanned). My husband has a photo of them on his desk and people often ask whose kids are they. Because they can't even make the imaginative leap that those light skinned kids could be his.

legzakimbotheatre · 23/09/2016 12:34

It must be infuriating getting asked this frequently though , sorry OP.

Just tell them "I am the mother, I gave birth to this child" - or like you say "no I'm not the nanny, why did you think that?" If they feel that they can ask you questions like that, then they should have no problem with you asking them why they asked. x

JinkxMonsoon · 23/09/2016 12:38

Here's an article that describes your feelings EXACTLY, OP.

www.the-pool.com/life/parenting-honestly/2016/35/up-with-the-kids-robyn-wilder-on-being-mistaken-for-an-au-pair

Caipira · 23/09/2016 12:43

My four children are half Brazilian. I have had a few comments over the years. Recently while my children were with my mother one of them got "lost" (sidetracked - he's 14) and she went to ask for an announcement to be put out for him. The woman looked at my 10 year old daughter who was standing next to my mother and said "Does he urm..does he speak English?". My mum was a bit shocked by that.

I have had "Is he half Japanese?", "Why are they not black, I thought all Brazilians were black". My husband had "Is your wife the one with the little blond boy?" To which he responded "Yes with my son".
I don't think any of those comments were racist. Just ignorant.
But the very worst comment I got is "Is he Chinky?" which was very clearly racist.

You roll with it. We live in Brazil now so no one makes any comments or any assumptions. But when we go back to the UK, I do notice the comments start rolling again.

JinkxMonsoon · 23/09/2016 12:49

This thread is one long depressing example of how most white people just cannot grasp the reality of racism. They think it's only racism if it's violent and aggressive. All the quiet, everyday, subtle assumptions that people make about others based in the colour of your skin is just 'you being sensitive, or others being rude'.

Yes!

Time and again on MN I see threads or featured blogs from non-white mothers talking about their problems and experiences and, every time without fail, posters (who I can only assume are white) pile in to say it's not racism, get over yourself, you're just being over sensitive.

You cannot deny someone else's lived experience just because you can't understand it.

drspouse · 23/09/2016 13:09

Jinx has it spot on. It is as if a whole thread full of blokes, and the odd woman, told a woman that all the builders whistling at her were "only paying her a compliment" and she "shouldn't be so sensitive".
Of course, some women (or Black people) have a thicker skin than others but it's OK to think something that doesn't happen or happens really rarely to men (or white people) is sexist (or racist), and it's OK to get upset.

drspouse · 23/09/2016 13:10

Jinx has it spot on. It is as if a whole thread full of blokes, and the odd woman, told a woman that all the builders whistling at her were "only paying her a compliment" and she "shouldn't be so sensitive".
Of course, some women (or Black people) have a thicker skin than others but it's OK to think something that doesn't happen or happens really rarely to men (or white people) is sexist (or racist), and it's OK to get upset.

legzakimbotheatre · 23/09/2016 13:12

Exactly drspouse and Jinkx!

StrawberryTot · 23/09/2016 13:27

I think YABalittleU, i haven't read the entire thread but from your initial post, I don't think the people you spoke to were intending on being racist but are clearly not very tactful. They have obviously jumped to the wrong conclusion, which can easily be rectified when you state the child is yours.

I have a similar situation however it is I who is white and I have a mixed race brother and sister (we share the same mum who is white, their father is African). When we are all out together people will recognise my Ds and Db as siblings but often mistake my Db for my partner, we don't find it offensive or racist and find the face people pull when they realise we are all related by blood and not marriage rather amusing.

To top it off my Db's DD is very light skinned and people often assume she is my DD and not my niece. We all take it on the chin. Grin

JinkxMonsoon · 23/09/2016 13:36

I don't think the people you spoke to were intending on being racist but are clearly not very tactful. They have obviously jumped to the wrong conclusion, which can easily be rectified when you state the child is yours.

It's not just about tact, though, it's about making assumptions that are a little bit racist. Like the idea that a brown skinned person can't be the parent of a light skinned child. And that a brown skinned person out and about with a light skinned child must surely be the hired help. About white and brown being superior and inferior, basically.

I'm not saying it's done maliciously, or that the people who say these thing are racists, but these assumptions have racist origins.

StrawberryTot · 23/09/2016 13:36

Just to add, not sure it adds anything to my post but here goes, considering my Ds and Db share the same parents they both have completely different skin tones, my Db is much darker, their children all have a white parent and their DC's are a much lighter skin tone. I however came out with shockingly porcelain skin and red head, the polar bloody opposite. I have always been jealous of their beautiful skin tones!!! Envy

redskytonight · 23/09/2016 13:42

For me, the point that determines whether it's racism or not is whether they would have asked the same question of a white mother who had a white child that physically didn't look very like her.

Granted, anecdotal evidence only, but my experience is that people don't.

JinkxMonsoon · 23/09/2016 13:43

Excellent point, red.

mygorgeousmilo · 23/09/2016 13:59

All this can ever be though, is another's OPINION! Do I have to put a disclaimer at the end of every post to declare that this is not a statement of fact, but merely my opinion?! In my humble opinion, as previously stated, I genuinely do not believe these people to be racist, I mean they could be, who knows? We haven't met them, they could be nasty, racist scumbags. They could be totally the opposite, but just have asked a question that wasn't really their business. My point to the OP was, that unless someone is singling you out, or treating you differently or as somehow less, then that doesn't fall under the definition of racism. Prejudice, even perhaps... But to me I don't consider the assumption that you are the nanny as any kind of insult, just an assumption due to the fact that you don't look alike. I threw in my own experience for you to use as something to balance it out in favour of it being nothing to do with race, because I'm white and have mixed race kids, and have been asked the same question numerous times. I look different to my kids, lots of kids have nannies etc etc and if you are going to spend any length of time getting to know a caregiver, I guess it can make a difference what your relationship is to the child when having conversations about, say, choosing a school, or perhaps some other chat that relates more specifically to the parents themselves. For what it's also worth, every nanny I know that springs to mind, is white British, and most of their young charges are black or Asian.... so what does that mean? I am acutely aware of the prevalence of racism, I have seen it, my whole family have experienced it as we are many mixed race members, and my children are mixed race, my husband has experienced it on many occasions and it is fucking vile! But still, STILL - I genuinely don't believe this line of questioning to be inherently racist. Again this is my belief, not a statement of fact, just as nobody else can say it definitely IS racist, as we just don't know the intent of the person asking the question. My point also was to tell the OP that I have been asked too, so she doesn't feel like shit and that she's being targeted by racists. That's not a feeling I would want anyone to walk around with, let alone with my belief that it isn't the case.

mygorgeousmilo · 23/09/2016 14:02

red that's what I was tying to say, to reassure the OP, that yes this has happened to me loads, as a white woman - I look nothing like my kids, and often am asked if I'm the nanny. I don't see it as racist. Then I'm getting all of this "white privilege" crap thrown at me. Ughhhhh

legzakimbotheatre · 23/09/2016 14:50

This was what red had said:

For me, the point that determines whether it's racism or not is whether they would have asked the same question of a white mother who had a white child that physically didn't look very like her.

So it's a bit different to your situation gorgeous?

You are a white mother with mixed race children so race may possibly still be a factor. But her point, I think, was whether these same people would it still ask the same question if race was taken out of the equation. I think that was the point. And we wouldn't really get to find out, because we don't go around in these people's heads whilst they come across that situation, but it's a good question.

Anyway, I think some people, myself included where just talking about the people who were being a bit aggressive. Saying "this is a white country" "saying it definitely was not racist" etc. Not you. It's nice that you're trying to reassure the OP.

My opinion is that most of time it probably has some race related thing going on, whether subconscious or not. But mostly, people should just stop being so nosey and rude!

SandyY2K · 23/09/2016 15:05

I had a friend with the reverse case.

She's white and her DH is from Brazil. The baby was mixed, but you couldn't tell he had any Caucasian in him.

With all the variation of skin colours, I never make assumptions.

littleprincesssara · 23/09/2016 15:26

Something does not need to be intentional to be racist.

That's one of the biggest problems in our society, that people believe racism=hating non-white people.

Ignorance and believing stereotypes (even positive or neutral sterotypes) can be examples of racism too. There are multiple different types of racism, e.g. systemic racism.

JinkxMonsoon · 23/09/2016 16:10

The point I was trying to make mygorgeousmilo, is that there are racist PEOPLE and there are racist ACTS. And, sometimes, nice people unintentionally say racist things. So it's not a simple case of saying "That wasn't racist OP, because I'm sure that person is nice and not a racist scumbag".

You don't have to be a racist scumbag to accidentally say something a little bit racist.

JinkxMonsoon · 23/09/2016 16:11

I see littleprincesssara just said what I said, but better Grin

A11TheSmallTh1ngs · 23/09/2016 16:42

The problem with racism is that it poisons ordinary acts. You don't know if it is racism or not most of the time.

One thing as a black person that threw me is realizing as an adult that many many things that I think only happen to me because I am black actually happen to white people as well all the time.

Like plenty of people will get asked if they are a nanny and they are white. A blonde person with a dark haired child will get asked. A redhead with a blonde child will get asked. An older mum will be assumed to be a grandmother. But when it happens to me, it's racism and I have to suffer and come to terms with another racist incident. But is it? Maybe it's 5% racism but 95% not.

If I go on a dating site and get no hits? Maybe it's cos I'm black. If someone is rude to me? Maybe it's because I'm black. It just spirals.

I've just realized that giving into racial paranoia gives you a temporary boost but in the long run corrodes your life. It poisons every interaction and it's not worth it. When I see stuff like this, I don't think about whether It references some part of my race or appearance , i think about whether it is REALLY ONLY happening to me because I am black. If not, I let it go.

Life is better that way. Of course, it won't fuel internet outrage but the angriest people online are never the happiest.