To think that scholarships for women shouldn't be open to men?

[HermioneWeasley]

So, scholarship to support women in STEM - a massive issue for all societies that we're not harnessing th talents of half our populations in this area.

But if you "identify as a woman in a way that's meaningful to you" you can apply.

What the ever loving fuck?

Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head.

[numberseven]

Genuine trans cases will have endured more difficulties than any poor little woman

Like Jennifer Pritzker the billionaire, the Matrix director brothers who now are the Matrix director sisters (yes, both transitioned in their middle age), Caitlyn Jenner, Joy Ladin.. All men who have made it big, had families, had careers, enjoyed male privilege and THEN decided they've always been women inside.

[FloraFox]

And transgender people are underrepresented even more than women

This is just a myth, especially if you separate poor, homosexual, POC MTTs from white, middle class heterosexual MTTs. The latter are well represented in STEM and other areas of achievement - only "woman" CEO in the Forbes top 10, two highest paid "women" film directors, only "woman" in the infantry, most senior "woman" engineer at Twitter, etc. Then there are those MTTs married to women who present as male at work in academia and represent LGBT people advising the Labour Party in their part time female persona.

You seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to this but you haven't given it much thought or attention.

[BombadierFritz]

why do people think no man would tick that box if it wasnt true? people lie for money all the time. its a pretty low barrier - who could argue with you if you said it was meaningful for you? I am a biological woman. I have short hair, wear trousers and tshirts, mens trainers, mens socks (bigger sizes). so any man could quite legitimately complain if he was judged on his clothes not being feminin enough. its a scholarship for science so they couldnt say his interests were not feminine enough. how can you prove what a person 'feels'?

[FullTimeYummy]

Just in case it wasn't screamingly obvious, i'm am highlighting the total logic-fail of complaining about trans women muscling in on women's opportunities, whilst fully supporting the notion of all-women-more-deserving-than-all-men, because, you know, on average over a large population, it's been shown that on average women are worse off.

Women-only scholarships in STEM areas are a good thing, but complaining that an organisation has deigned it appropriate to extend opportunities to other under-represented groups, makes no sense whatsoever.

If they want to offer a scholarship to women (underrepresented) and men who identify as women (underrepresented) they can do and no amount of MN mouth-frothing is going to change that or make it wrong. Sorry about that.

[shins]

TheCountess that link is horrifying. I couldn't believe his lack of awareness that he would make young girls feel threatened and uncomfortable. Well I suppose I can.

[BombadierFritz]

I, for example, would quite happily tick a box saying I identified as a man if it got me a 50p discount in a shop. thats how low my barrier is :)

[ErrolTheDragon]

FTM - do you have statistics which show that transgender people are underrepresented in STEM?

[Sunshineonacloudyday]

Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head.

Please some one give me strength and put some education into this girls head.

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

Someone who 'identifies as a woman' hasn't experienced any of the prejudice, harmful stereotypes or social conditioning that act as a barrier to women entering STEM.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Women-only scholarships in STEM areas are a good thing, but complaining that an organisation has deigned it appropriate to extend opportunities to other under-represented groups, makes no sense whatsoever

No-one thinks it is inappropriate for other under-represented groups to be given scholarships (for example). The point is they shouldn't be given womens scholarships.

[LyndaNotLinda]

For the love of the goddess, can someone who uses the term 'living as a woman' please explain to me what that means? Nakupenda?

As for the lifetime of stigma and hormones etc, may I present Nicholas. Nicholas is currently whining about not being able to use women's changing rooms at Urban Outfitters. Does he identify as a woman? Not really. But he does identify as trans (well, he has for the last couple of months anyhow) and that means that he thinks he can cherry pick stuff aimed at women when it suits, and then throw off that mantle and go back to his white male privilege whenever he likes. He's not taking hormones, doing hair removal or having cosmetic surgery.

But if he wants to apply for this scholarship, that's fine because his life is harder than mine. Let's just hope he's as thick as he comes across in this article.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

I would be very surprised indeed if transwomen were underrepresented in STEM - anecdotally it's far more likely to be the other way round.

[Binkybix]

And transgender people are underrepresented even more than women, because until the Equalies Act, it was OK and legal to 'other' and to discriminate against

What are the stats here please? And do you mean transitioned trans, or identifies as a women?

[BombadierFritz]

if anything it might make more sense for women and female to trans scholarship, unless 'ladybrain' is the reason why women are under represented in science

[BeyondASpecialSnowflake]

If you wanna look at "under representation" of mtt in stem, looking at the top doctors in the field of "gender reassignment" is an interesting start.

[Twunk]

If someone want to set up a Trans scholarship then they can knock themselves out. Pointless but fine, whatever.

But "in some way I can self-define I am a woman" is insulting to women.

[FullTimeYummy]

It isn't a scholarship (only) for women

It's a scholarship for women AND those who identify as such


Should they double their admin and offer two scholarships, just because the hard of thinking on MN can't understand fairly basic statements?

.

[Twunk]

beyond there's something in your throat

[VickyMirdle]

This person is born male, but identifies as a woman... Danielle Muscato. No surgery or apparent transition has taken place. Should she be able to apply for this scholarship? Under what (non-circular) definition is Danielle a woman, apart from forename and pronouns?

[dybil]

I'm no biologist, and this ultimately does not have to shape your opinion on the particular topic on this thread, but I notice a real disconnect between mumsnet, where the majority seem to dismiss any biological basis for transgenderism, and information from elsewhere. A quick Google for 'causes of transgender' returns lots of articles about studies strongly suggesting a biological basis. Is the mumsnet consensus that this is all a conspiracy?

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

All of the MTT I have met IRL worked in stem.

[Cherryskypie]

I'm self defining as a bunny 🐰

[OlennasWimple]

That article by Nicholas is so awful, Lynda. Special snowflake alert...

[CancellyMcChequeface]

From Lynda's link:

" I haven't had any hormones or facial electrolysis, and I don't have any boobs. But make no mistake: I am trans. I wear basically all women's clothing, makeup, and hairdos and I identify as a gender-fluid trans person. "

No, Nicholas. What you are is a transvestite. It doesn't entitle you to go into women-only spaces.

If gender roles were less rigid, 'transvestite' wouldn't be a meaningful term and he'd just be a man who liked dresses and makeup. Either way, the idea that he'd potentially be eligible for a woman-only scholarship is positively Orwellian.