To think that scholarships for women shouldn't be open to men?

[HermioneWeasley]

So, scholarship to support women in STEM - a massive issue for all societies that we're not harnessing th talents of half our populations in this area.

But if you "identify as a woman in a way that's meaningful to you" you can apply.

What the ever loving fuck?

Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head.

80s - what do you see that makes you feel the battle for female equality has been won?

We've made strides, but from where I'm standing there's a long way to go. Particularly in representation in STEM

No, IAGTBF, no.

There is something different and they inherently have something female about them.

Like what? Something measurable? Female sex organs? Female chromosomes? Or just a feeling in their head?

The reason women need STEM scholarships is because women are under represented due to the disadvantages of basically being born a women

Serious question, what do you think is stopping school girls from applying to study engineering at uni? Girls are outperforming boys academically across the board, so what makes a girl with good maths and physics grades go off to uni to study French or some other humanities degree?

Im an engineer myself, my company makes a strong effort to promote this career with local schools. We invite local pupils in for work experience and conduct seminars at the schools themselves to encourage kids to consider engineering as a career. To put it bluntly, from my experience, girls are just not interested, very few apply for the work placements and very few stop by our stand at career fairs. Even when physics/maths teachers have nudged a bright female pupil in our direction we rarely see much enthusiasm.

Universities and companies are trying very hard to recruit more women and while things are becoming more balanced they are still a long way off. Engineering offices and uni departments are hardly hotbeds of alpha male high fiving chauvinism, nerdy and maybe a bit uncool would be more accurate.

Knowing many of the teaching staff who we liase with I believe them when they say they try to encourage girls to look at engineering so what is stopping them? Parents?

Disability?

I guess you're gonna argue that anyone who (without any actual impairment) "feels" disabled has mh problems?

(Post not an answer to pan)

No, IAGTBF, no.

Eh?

80s, but the person who has black heritage but looks white has white privilege.

Transwomen benefit from male socialisation and male privilege . They don't face the same barriers getting into STEM studies and careers that women do.

80schild if women have equality then why don't they just offer up this opportunity to Transwomen only? Women clearly don't need it.

Knowing many of the teaching staff who we liase with I believe them when they say they try to encourage girls to look at engineering so what is stopping them? Parents?

Gender. The bullshit girls are made to believe about being female from the day they are born.

There is something different and they inherently have something female about them

Like what?

PanGalaticGargleBlaster

Jesus H. Christ, somebody with experience, facts and insight has turned up. You don't belong on the thread. It's about how women are disadvantaged

If the people running this scholarship wan to be trans-inclusive but support the class of people who are systematically underrepresented in STEM, then they should replace that box with 'I identify as a man but was born and socialised as a girl'.

'As women we have fought the battle for equal rights and acceptance and broadly speaking we have won. '

Seriously, 80schild?
In theory maybe but not on the ground. Or girls would not be getting sexually harassed on a massive scale in schools, it would be possible to have a female Labour leader, TV dramas would represent women as equal human beings rather than constantly eroticised as rape victims. And that's just a few issues of many.

Actually, I think you are wrong. As I understand it the trans "umbrella" includes anybody whose gender identity, expression or behavior is different from those typically associated with their assigned sex at birth. An umbrella term for transsexuals, cross-dressers (transvestites), transgenderists, gender queers, and people who identify as neither female nor male and/or as neither a man or as a woman. (my emphasis)

So...everyone? Given that I don't know a single person who conforms to a wholly masculine or feminine stereotype (or 'gender identity' if you prefer).

Also, sex isn't 'assigned' at birth, except in a rare minority of cases where infants have an intersex condition. It isn't picked at random, it's biological. The baby has a penis or a vulva.

As a woman in STEM I would agree that the gender imbalance is borne largely from childhood conditioning. So someone who has transitioned in adulthood would not have been at the same disadvantage as someone who had grown up as a girl. But the wording would also include hermaphrodites or disorders of sex development where someone might have had to decide or have had it decided for them that they would be raised as a woman. To be honest, as someone who has read application calls for women in STEM this is the first time I have seen such wording and it strikes me as bizarre. Surely as with any of these sorts of applications such issues could be dealt with on a case by case basis. It will not be the only criterium for applying.

I think the text is completely unnecessary. And if it HAD to be there, then it should state that applicants should have been raised and currently be living as a woman, if the purpose is actually to encourage girls to go into STEM at early stage research.

nowing many of the teaching staff who we liase with I believe them when they say they try to encourage girls to look at engineering so what is stopping them? Parents?

My partner was obsessed with buying the girls dollies for christmas and birthdays. They might have wanted a train set or lego. Last week my 18 month old son was playing with a pram and dolly I won't stop him he plays with what he wants.

The scholarship is fake though isn't it? Cards against humanity

Pan - as I said, I'm a programmer. I had to walk into lecture theatres where I was the only woman in a hall of over 100 men. If I wasn't sure enough of my ability, then there's no way I could have done it.

I've worked with lots of mediocre men over the years. I don't know what we're doing to our kids, but study after study shows that men consistently over-estimate themselves, and women consistently underestimate themselves, that a male name on a CV gets more money, and estimated as being more competent than a female one.

That if you open virtually any IT dept, you will just see a sea of males, or any computer lab at school, or any games room at a youth club, and it all combines to girls disassociating and not realising that they would do just fine if they tried.

It's for women and those who identify as women. It really isn't complicated.

You're right it's not complicated. It's for anyone who checks this box. Simple. And pointless.

"As women we have fought the battle for equal rights and acceptance and broadly speaking we have won" Ahahahahaha. Yeah, right.

Actually, to your second point. I am absolutely in support of transgender rights. I don't believe they should be discriminated against in any shape or form. But I don't think their rights need to stomp all over women's.

Women are woefully under-represented in STEM. This isn't helped by the current vogue for ladybrain (as endorsed by our very own Science Museum) and an enforcement of rigid gender stereotypes. Opening out the scholarship to anyone who feels like a woman (and what is that too?) is shit.

Toast demon - yes, I would argue that we have mostly won. The reason why women opt out of work after a certain point is because of children. Women do better in all areas of life. Unless of course you think we should infantilise ourselves. And yes, as a woman, I do feel an obligation to support people who are oppressed. If it wasn't for the suffragettes we would still be getting struck with a cane by our husbands.

80s are you saying there is something inherent in black people's DNA that might cause certain traits even if they look white?
That's a statement that makes me incredibly uncomfortable. Would you like to tell me what inherent characteristics you think black people possess beyond their physical appearance?

I'm also intrigued as to what "inherently female" qualities Transwomen have? Can you enlighten us?

pangalactic IIRC the dramatic drop in girls participating in STEM happens around a level. Research talking to girls about why they tend toward humanities show a number of issues, from lack of female role models, boys dominating STEM classes and bullying girls, girls wanting to do things they know they'll excell in (residual difficulty of most sciences is harder than most humanities) , hobbies and interests have deviated from STEM, massive sexism in things like gaming industry. For some it's a conscious choice, for others it's a drift away, but it's a huge talent drain in areas which are already in shortage.

Engineering offices and uni departments are hardly hotbeds of alpha male high fiving chauvinism, nerdy and maybe a bit uncool would be more accurate.

I did a STEM degree and work in a STEM field. Female colleagues and friends in the same field - some in academia, some in technical specialities with links to academia - have experienced the most horrendous sexual harassment, along with daily sexist microaggressions, from exactly those nerdy and uncool engineers. The nerdier and more male-dominated it is the worse it seems to be, anecdotally.