To think that scholarships for women shouldn't be open to men?

[HermioneWeasley]

So, scholarship to support women in STEM - a massive issue for all societies that we're not harnessing th talents of half our populations in this area.

But if you "identify as a woman in a way that's meaningful to you" you can apply.

What the ever loving fuck?

Another example of the damage being done to actual women, by saying that "woman" is a feeling in a man's head.

[HermioneWeasley]

Those who think I'm totally transphobic/ there's nothing wrong with this, can you answer my question about scholarships for black students.

If that's not ok, why is this?

[FullTimeYummy]

HermioneWealsey: "Are all trans women inherently more deserving that boring old women?"


Are all women more deserving than boring old men? They've got their own special scholarship, so they must be right?

Even women serial killers? They're eligible for this scholarship, but no man who identifies as a man is, no matter what struggle they have experienced. What was your point again?

[Twunk]

Apart from anything else "I identify as a woman in a way that is significant to me" means absolutely fucking nothing. Literally a man could just say it without having to lie about it.

If I were in a position to apply for that I would question whether they wanted actual women to apply at all.

[HermioneWeasley]

yummy one last time. The purpose of offering a scholarship to women (or any under represented group) is to level the playing field. Women are grossly under represented in STEM subjects. There is no need to encourage more men to participate, it happens naturally.

If someone wanted to offer a scholarship for groups of men that are underrepresented , I'd have no issue with that.

But don't start a scholarship for women, with the aim of addressing the imbalance, and then let the over represented group apply.

[CancellyMcChequeface]

YANBU.

Why do we need scholarships to encourage women in STEM? Because little girls are socialised to believe that men are inherently better at these things than women. Studies on stereotype threat have proven that the girls don't even need to consciously believe that men are better for it to affect their confidence and abilities.

Maybe without all the gender role bullshit forced on them from infancy, more women would succeed in STEM.

[FullTimeYummy]

Hermione:

The scholarship is for women and trans women. One scholarship, for two underrepresented groups.

Which bit of that don't you get?


And where on earth do trans serial killer fit in?

Are you a bit daft?

[BeyondASpecialSnowflake]

Using my DSA again. Should a gay student be able to claim it? They're 'disadvantaged' too?

[FRETGNIKCUF]

STEM is an area where women are hugely under represented. Our insights are extremely valuable as recently shown by our more vocal outcry to the gendered brains bullshit.

So of course if women are required for quotas or insight or just plain equality then the very least they should be is women. Bonafide women with girlhoods. No point trying to encourage girls into STEM if scholarships are taken by men is there.

Defeats the object entirely.

Transwomen can apply for non sex specific scholarships.

As a Caucasian atheist woman who identifies as Jewish I'm hoping for the Jewish bursary this year......

[FloraFox]

Interesting after Jeremy Corbyn's comments on yesterday's web chat about more women in STEM but not answering what a woman actually means.

To the "poor trans" people on this thread, if stigma is the thing that stops men abusing trans rights to get scholarships and access to women's spaces, why would women want to remove the stigma?

[MeMyself1]

Genuine trans cases will have endured more difficulties than any poor little woman

WTAF?! Could there be more open misogyny in one sentence? As far as I'm concerned 'genuine trans cases' are not the ones running this 'agenda' - those that I've known are not MRAs posing asTransactivists; they may wish to 'pass' as women but they are not deluded enough to think that they are anything other than 'transwomen', they are not 'competitive' nor exhibitionist and they are often appalled once they realise the extent of the misogyny women suffer and are more likely to be a 'feminist ally' rather than a TA. Transactivism is inherently misogynistic and homophobic and I do wish 'genuine trans cases' and LGB people would tell the TAs to STFU!

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

Here's an example of a more deserving transwoman. Transitioned a couple of months ago. No woman has ever had it as hard as him, eh Yummy? here

[ErrolTheDragon]

And one of the ways to wear down the stereotypes is to get more women into STEM so that little girls see women - 'people like me' occupying those roles. It's an ongoing iterative task.

[CharlieSierra]

I just can't get worked up about stuff like that. Live and let live, if a man wants to be feminine and identify as a woman then meh, fair enough

Nakupenda can you explain a bit more about your reasons? Women need STEM scholarships because they suffer disadvantages in this area due to being women. Do you deny that fact? Do you think it's ok for men to take those places when they are already disproportionately advantaged? This thread isn't about men dressing up, it's about an already disadvantaged group losing more ground to an already advantaged group. Can you say a bit more about why you're ok with it other than meh?

[UnmentionedElephantDildo]

They are not open to men.

No-one is going to do this as a kind of easy money for fancy dress.

And transgender people are underrepresented even more than women, because until the Equalies Act, it was OK and legal to 'other' and to discriminate against.

And I abhor the level of transphobia on MN.

[FRETGNIKCUF]

"I have no problem in women moving aside for the more deserving trans.

After all, as this scholarship illustrates, men have to move aside for the more deserving women."
Fulltimeyummy


Just curious what is the % females in STEM???
Would you like it to be more equal?

[ToastDemon]

FullTimeYummy this is a scholarship for women. WOMEN. Not men who say they are women. That is why actual women are objecting. It's changed the goal posts to include a sub-section of a an over-represented group.
Is it perhaps you who is a bit daft?

[ladyballs]

YANBU at all.

[FRETGNIKCUF]

Sometimes I dream that Dittany was back dishing out nuggets to misogynist women.

[LineyReborn]

And I abhor the level of misogyny on MN.

[FRETGNIKCUF]

Trans people are not proportionately more under represented than women AT ALL.

And even if they were why isn't there a separate scholarship.

It's absolute othering of women.

We are 50% of the fucking world.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

The scholarship is for women and trans women. One scholarship, for two underrepresented groups

The scholarship blurb specifically says women which MtT are not. I personally would be happy for a FtT.

Yes MtT may experience disadvantage/discrimination/difficulties, but they are still not women, and they haven't experienced being socialised as a woman.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Ar trans people underrepresented in STEM? Do we actually have any statistics on that? If they are underrepresented, is that because of discrimination or because people with an aptitude for science are less likely to align themselves with the pseudoscience of 'female brain' ?

[VickyMirdle]

Nakupenda

No problem at all here with a man being feminine. What I do have a problem with is sex (ie biology) being conflated with gender (culture). In so doing, it erases the advances made for women in the past century. It means that women have to admit males to their sex class, even if they themselves (women) repudiate the concept of gender. It is forcing women to share gym showers, hospital wards, hostel dorm rooms, competition for science scholarships with people they have no common identity with (beyond basic humanity/decency). Many of those women will have suffered assault and the PTSD after effects of assault, or have been overlooked for employment/other opportunities because they're perceived to be at risk of needing a maternity employee package, by those people with penises. They feel understandably wary and aggrieved that their biology has been used to oppress and discriminate against them. Affirmative actions, like this science scholarship go a small way to redressing the disadvantage that women suffer in academia and the professions. To say that womanhood is something that one can identify into, without the requisite anatomical apparatus or anything externally verifiable is a travesty for every woman who has suffered discrimination and male violence due to her perceived potential sex appeal or reproductive intentions. Try being a newly married woman and applying for permanent jobs.

Trans people also suffer discrimination and harassment and they have my full support against that... but trans oppression occurs along a different axis from women's oppression, which is due to biology.

[Katymac]

DD had subsidised dance classes because she is a child of African and Caribbean descent

Several mothers of 'blonde' ethnically 'British' dancers have been outraged that DD had this support as why should DD be prioritised?

However, despite not be necessarily true in DD's case, ballet training for immigrant populations is not generally prioritised so in order to enable them to have the advantages their non-immigrant contemporaries have these this Bursary was set up

If these 'blonde' dancers identify as black should they be able to attend the subsidised classes?