To think a 10 year old girl shouldn't be encouraged to see herself as "nonbinary"

[MrsJamin]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37383914

How is this story so lauded by the right-on BBC? It's so very irresponsible of the parents to persuade a girl that she doesn't need to be a girl. Girls should be told that they are girls, and that doesn't prevent them from liking or doing anything that people say boys should only do. How does she even know what hormone blockers are? She could mess up her health forever by taking hormones in her adolescence. :(

(and yes, another trans thread - I don't care, this is SCARY SHIT right here when girls don't want to be girls)

I heard the full piece on R4 early Saturday morning, driving home tired from a 12hr nightshift.
It was surreal. I thought i was hallucinating.
I felt so sorry for the child.
Try and catch it on R4.

ThingyMc
Biologically gender is a spectrum and the binary aspect is cultural. Same as race, same a sexuality.

It's like language, yet somehow still complete and utter bollocks.

Hi mum said " you have always been more attracted to boys" to a ten year old. Ten year olds should be attracted to anyone.

*shouldnt

Ffs!

Why can't people just leave DC alone and let them develop in to adults with there own minds instead of shut like this.

*shit

I wanted to be a cat when i was little. I'm still waiting for my species-reassignment

Biologically, gender does not exist. Only sex does.

The whole thing is regressive and homophobic.

I had this thought repeatedly as I listened to Leo and his parents. There is already an established, tested and wonderful solution to your problem: bisexuality.

I am appalled at the idea of asking a 10 year old if she is straight or gay. It takes teenagers and sometimes adults a lot of time to figure that out. Just let her be.

I've submitted a complaint about the inappropriate sexualisation aspect.

I agree with Vestal. I have a DD and a DS close in age. They both enjoy playing with most of the same toys. They have sometimes wear articles of each other's clothes. DD is always going to be a girl, DS will always be pa boy. They might be gay or they might not, impossible to say. But enjoying Lego or toy cars doesn't define s boy any more than dressing up as a princess defines a girl.

I think we should be teaching all children that there is no 'gender binary' where boys like trucks and robots and science, and girls like pink and glitter and dolls.

Due to the sexism that pervades or culture it wouldn't surprise me at all if a girl was fed up with the female parts in school plays. I adored pantomime as a kid because it was the only place I saw a female doing the exciting 'hero' role, rather than the boring 'wait around to be rescued' role.

It's very obvious that the first response of this child parents was not to challenge where the child had got their gender ideas from or whether they were true, but to encourage them to think about gender in a binary way and pick one, and when the child still didn't feel right they encouraged them to think they were unusually 'non-binary', rather than talking to them about the fact that practically no one actually fits into the rigid stereotypes we have about gender.

Biological sex is not a spectrum. Humans, like other vertebrate animals, reproduce sexually and are sexually dimorphic. There is male, and there is female. And, rarely, the process goes wrong and a person has an intersex medical condition. The existence of anomalies does not make sex a spectrum.

Just tell kids that they can like whatever they like, and love whomever they love, it doesn't have to change what sex they are. I honestly think that some parents are so against their daughter being a lesbian that they would rather she went down the transgender route. Then they can medicalise it by saying she was "born in the wrong body", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

Yes and no.

She shouldn't be encouraged to see herself as non-binary in the sense that that means she isn't really a girl (clearly, she is a girl).

But she should be encouraged to see herself as non-binary in the sense that every single human being on this planet, is non-binary - we do no fit neatly into socially and culturally constructed sex stereotypes and it is fundamentally reactionary for the BBC to be promoting the idea that a girl who likes pirates, must really be a boy because pirates are for boys.

These are the fuckwits who used to laugh at Enid Blyton, but even she knew that George was a girl, even though she did like short hair and trousers.

Oh, this is nonsense bordering on child abuse. These parents clearly can't deal with their little girl not conforming to the gender stereotypes attached to her biological sex and, because she likes pirates instead of princesses, are now filling her poor head with bullshit.

The phrases and terminology this child is using to describe herself are words and ideas no 10 year old would use or eve no. She's parroting everything her parents have said. Children of that age are very open to suggestion, especially from their mum and dad. Why can't they just leave her alone to dress however she wants and play with whatever she wants. What happened to imagination?? When I was a kid most little girls lived in dungarees and climbed trees and played with lego... this poor kid is being forced into a tiny narrow box.

I despair of this sudden desire to rush kids into bullshit labels or, much worse, hormones and surgery. There's no such thing as non-binary. Or rather, as NOBODY conforms 100% to gender stereotypes attached to our sex, WE ARE ALL NON-BINARY!

Lord protect us from this crazy parents determined to force their perfectly healthy and normal kids into speshull snowflakes.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07v37fb

The recording is very telling. Mum had to tell her buddies at baby group about Leo even though Leo sounds less than thrilled about that. Leo only started discussing gender this summer but has already had two different identities (and is planning to change pronouns again when she's older) and has socially transitioned at school. Really irresponsible parenting.

I just don't get it like many others. Never have I thought about being a woman. I am me and my periods and body make me a woman. And I have them. So that's that.

That little girl doesn't understand what being a boy is. Why can't she just be her? It's so odd

I agree Kat. Yes there are intersex people where the process goes wrong. Like being born without an arm. But sex is always make or female no shades of grey.

If any of my children were to say to me "mum I feel like the opposite sex" I would let them dress how they wanted and even called them by the name they want

I would never let them bind their breasts or take any medication.

As it's probably a phase or the latest fad and will grow out of it themselves.

I would never forgive myself if my daughter was unable to have children as an adult because of a fad she humoured as a child

Leo's also seen a GP and had a large dose of Internet (no 10-year-old just knows about ze/hir/etc pronouns) in the TWO MONTHS since she 'came out'. Parents are idiots.

My 15 yr old was born a girl, always had emotional problems and trouble attending school, went to CAMHS and "came out" as wanting to be a boy (at about 13 yrs old). It obviously upset both myself and my DP (I am more supportive and accepting, but that is because I want my child to grow into a body they love and accept themselves as they are - and to not feel that they are weird and unloved), my DP is very upset and feels like it is a bereavement. This, in turn, has caused a lot of emotional problems at home. Here are a few facts.....

1. I have NEVER asked my child who they "fancy" - even before they came out. I have said that one day they will fall in love with somebody, and be happy. To ask a child whether they are gay or straight is not the right thing to do, especially when they are only 10. Not sure why the mum thought this was OK to do.

1. We are under the care of a London transgender clinic who are taking things very slowly - no pressure to do this or that - just supportive. We were told about hormone blockers, but researched and decided that the side effects were too severe.

1. My "son" wishes that they didn't feel like this. It is uncomfortable to have a very large bust that feels like a couple of aliens dancing around EVERY DAY. To be able to go outside, they wear a binder which is hot and uncomfortable, but not as uncomfortable as having boobs which feel like they shouldn't be there.

1. Being transgender is not a choice, it is an imbalance of hormones and chemicals, a bit like any other imbalance.

I am unsure if the article was written differently to how the interview was done, I cannot see why any mum would "embrace" their child going through such an upsetting and confusing situation. The knock on effect to members of the family and friends are difficult, I would not wish it on anyone.

To end this - I will support my child through their transition if that is what they decide (as an adult) they want to go through - I will cry buckets, but I will be there, 110% behind them, as I am their mum. I have told them they are to go very slowly, not to feel forced into making decisions, that other people's opinions do not matter when it comes to making this decision, and that if they want to back out of anything at any time, I am right there with them.

Not sure if you've noticed but I cannot put "him" - I use "they" or "them" as it is neutral. My daughter is NOT a boy, still a girl physically in my eyes - but I have to respect their feelings. Saying "she" and "her" makes them feel that they are not respected.

Please don't be too harsh about transgender.... again, its not a choice but a very confusing and lonely place for a young person to be.

4. Being transgender is not a choice, it is an imbalance of hormones and chemicals, a bit like any other imbalance.

Source?

I am finding it all very scary. Very, very, scary.

I feel really, really sorry for adults who still feel they've been born into the wrong body. I accept there's the odd person who has genuine reasons for medical help.

But fuck, not teenagers & not children. They need society to help, not Drs & not batshit parents telling them they can be gender neutral or have hormone blockers or any other god damn stupid thing.

Girls are girls
Bots are boys

They can all wear pink, blue, lime green or whatever they like.
They can all play babies, bake, play with tractors or climb trees.
They can all dance, play rugby, dress up as fairies or pirates.
They can all do whatever they want to do as adults.

THIS is the message they need, not gender reassignment or whatever else.

It's terrifying.

Of course it is uncomfortable and distressing to hate your body. But we don't say to people with anorexia "oh yes, you are definitely in the wrong body, lets give you some liposuction". Surely the first line of treatment should be mental health care that helps them to come to term with their developing female/male body? Not sure that science backs up the hormone imbalance theory for being transgender.