Child maintaince with a greedy ex

[EveOnline2016]

My brother has his daughter a lot.

This is how it breaks down. 1/2 the school holidays. EOW plus every Monday Tuesday and Thursday after school. Also 1/2 the cost of school uniform.

EOW is Friday after school till bedtime Sunday.

Still ex wants CMO payments.

While he has his daughter he feeds and clothes her and washes and irons the school uniform to send back.

My brother has now stopped the £100 per week maintence or he can't afford to have his dd.

Is this fair.

I don't imagine there would have been a thread discussing his non-payment of child maintenance then

What if the op asked if £400 a month on top of nearly 50/50 was an unreasonable amount to pay?

Dds best friends parents split a little while ago, 3dc.

They spend alternative weeks at each parents, with mid weeks at the other ones, they don't pay money to each other but if something comes up like expensive trips they split the costs, or the one who has the funds spare will pay, or if something happens like the car breaks down, then the other parent will pick up expenses if one is short, they are both flexible re childcare and will change plans if the one who has the the children that week needs to work late or needs to be somewhere.

They both attend parents evenings, school plays etc. They mange this despite really not liking each at all, there's a lot of hostility but when it comes to dc, they both want wants best and if say dad has been ill and wage is low, mum will pick up school meals etc for a while til he gets back on his feet so that he can catch back up on other bills, not to help him, but to benefit their dcs, so that the dad isn't worrying about heating the home or paying school meals or buying clothing etc, and vice versa.

People are often astonished at their set up, many sys the mum is lucky at having every other week child free, while also saying the dad is a superstar for managing work, 3dc and maintaining a new relationship. Surely it's how it should be, two parents taking equal responsibility, for not just the good stuff, the playing, the laughing etc but also the fucking hard stuff, the frantic getting ready for school and work, the limit to working hours, the leaving work to pick sick dc up from school, the planning clubs and activities and play dates. It's sad that it's not the norm really.

BakerStreetSaxRift

It's not 50/50. It's two nights every other weekend and half the holidays. Plus a few dinners. According to OP, who given she was desperately trying to make her deadbeat brother sound better by being vague, we can probably assume that this is a rose-tinted version of what he does.

Put his earnings and number of nights over year into the CMS calculator and see if that 400 meets the legal minimum. If it said 400 a month was OK, then that would answer the question. It's really quite simple.

womansactually

That's how it should be.

According to OP, who given she was desperately trying to make her deadbeat brother sound better by being vague

Deadbeat?

If 2 evenings out of 4, alternate weekends (inc Fri, Sat and Sun evenings), half the holidays, paying for clothes and school costs plus £400 a month (which has now stopped - and that's wrong) - well if that's deadbeat, I'm not sure what would you would use for real deadbeat dads.

I read it as 2 nights out of 14.

A couple of teatimes does not equate to anywhere close to 50/50.

He is stopping paying the £400!
So he will be paying nothing.
Plus it's not 2 evening out of 4 is it?

A couple of teatimes does not equate to anywhere close

It's 2 pick ups out of 4 from school - and back home late in the evening.

Just like the mum does.
Except the DD stays at her mums.

He's not paying anything. That's a deadbeat in my book.

Sorry catching up on the thread and been in work.

My brother does take his daughter to appointments and after school clubs, he also takes her to birthday invites and attends all parent evenings and school plays.

He is not a Disney dad, he does all the things a parent does.

But how can he take her to a birthday party when he is struggling to make ends meet and can't get a small gift and a card.

The only way he will be able to do it is if he says to the mother that he can't afford to have her after school, but that would mean her giving up her job or finding a child minder.

I will agree that maintence payments should be rejigged.

A deadbeat is someone who doesn't pay their bills.

He doesn't pay his child maintenance.

Ergo: deadbeat.

As others have said, it's really quite simple but you seem determined to give him every justification you can muster up for why he's great. You seem a bit overinvested in defending this particular poor behaviour.

Deadbeat brother

How about people stop throwing labels around that you have no idea as to whether it is true or not.

Plus it's not 2 evening out of 4 is it

It could be:

Mon - mum pick up
Tues - Dad pick up, return late
Wed - Mum pick up
Thurs - Dad pick up return late

Fri / Sat - Mum or Dad pick up

Sun- either at mums or at Dads - then return late

So what. 2 picks out of 5

She does the other 3 plus 5 mornings? Plus every other weekend plus 12 nights out of 14

It's laughable that anyone could view that as close to 59/50

As others have said, it's really quite simple but you seem determined to give him every justification you can muster up for why he's great. You seem a bit overinvested in defending this particular poor behaviour

As I have repeatedly pointed out - I don't think he should have stopped the maintenance.

I am merely discussing what is reasonable to expect in this situation - and I certainly do not think that that he is a deadbeat dad given what he has done in the past (based on what we've been told).

If he doesn't pay any child support he is a deadbeat.

It's laughable that anyone could view that as close to 50/50

Really -

I would say that the hours after school are the key ones - the time to get appointments in, homework done, playdates, hobbies, clothes brought etc.

They both seem to have the same number of after school hours.

Mornings are different.

If he doesn't pay any child support he is a deadbeat

Do you think he has been a deadbeat in the past - given what we've been told?

As I have repeatedly pointed out - I don't think he should have stopped the maintenance.

But he did.

And that is what the thread is about. Him stopping paying maintainence.

You are determined to make it about all the other apparently wonderful things he does, and not about the fact that he has stopped paying child maintenance.

And I have to wonder why that is...

And I have to wonder why that is

Wonder all you like. I am asking what should be expected given the circumstances and if the CSA calculator truly reflects the reality of the costs.

Do you think he has been a deadbeat in the past - given what we've been told?

Oh for fuck sake.

NO. BECAUSE IN THE PAST HE PAID FUCKING MAINTENANCE. NOW HE DOESN'T.

God, you're seriously hard of thinking Ego.

Why the fuck am I still engaging in this nonsense, .

God, you're seriously hard of thinking Ego

What level do you think would be fine - given that he has his DD 2 after school evenings out of 4 a week, EOW, half the holidays, pays for school clothes, does appointments etc?

He does seem to be doing a lot - and that should be what's expected.

Do you think his ex is incurring more costs than he is - given these circumstances? If so, why?

I'm not sure I agree with you there - it's part of being a parent. Being a parent means having that time with your DCs and that's important. It also enables the ex to work and not worry about childcare. There are so many threads on here from people in relationships who can't work because their partner is working - and that stops them from working - or they have to pay for childcare.

I agree, contact time is very important, but to me, the reason or motivation behind it is for the child to see the NRP, to have a relationship with the, not as a favour to the ex.

And If contact time with NRP is seen as childcare time for the RP to work, what happens when NRPs like the one in the OP decided his ex is working too many hours, that she should be at home with his dc more, or that he wants to increase his own hours, and just stops providing that too?

I know not all NRPs would do this, but there's plenty who withdraw financial support for their dc because they don't agree with ex's lifestyle so I'm sure there's plenty who would piss about with contact if they saw it as something they do to benefit the ex, rather than their dc.

I am sure many ex partners would like the opportunity to work rather than worry about looking after their DCs and the potential costs of that - by lost earnings or childcare.
But would many ex partners be comfortable putting their ability to be at work and what hours they can do in the hands of an ex who has withdrawn financial support for the dc and could withdraw the childcare they provide too?

For the other parent, it can be valuable chance to spend time with their DCs - who they may not see enough anyway. But we also know that having that time can come at a cost - parents who prioritise children over work pay a financial price.

It counts on both parents agreeing and being totally cooperative I suppose, I just think that the type of NRP who is happy to stop paying cos he feels his ex is greedy will also be happy to stop providing that childcare too. That if he sees CMS as a benefit for his ex rather than his dc, then he'll see that contact time as a benefit for his ex rather than his dc too.

Contact time should be for the benefit of the relationship with dc imo.

I think the point is well made.

OP

Your brother isn't paying maintenance. Everyone agrees that he should. He can work out his legal obligation for this by using the CSA calculator online.
Most people also agree that since he has his child for various evenings but not overnight he could talk to his child and his ex about increasing his overnights. If this seems to be in the best interests of the child they could change the arrangement themselves, or he could take the matter to mediation and then court.

The longer he doesn't pay maintenance for, the longer it will take him to get resolution in the overnight, since no-one will take him seriously while he can't meet his current bare minimum legal obligation to his child.

HTH.

I've not read the full thread, but I think there's a simple way to do this. It appears he takes care of her around 50% of the time, and so does mum.
It sounds like they are both happy to pay for her to have a bedroom in each house. It sounds like they are both agreeable to clubs etc,etc.
Instead of seeing it as maintenance, they should probably sit down, and tally up what she costs each month in pocket money, club, childcare, clothes, food, school trips, divide this by two, and pay equally.
Set up a basic bank account, and the money goes in there. Then this is solely money for your nieces needs, neither parent should have an issue if they are intent on providing for their child equally.