£9000 per year plus living costs and it is policy for the university tutor not to talk to,parents...am I being too precious?

[MillyDLA]

Just wondered your thoughts. My ds has missed the credits needed to move to his next year at uni, failing one exam by 2%. He has only just been told today that he can't return to uni until Sept 2017. I would have liked to have discussed this and meet with the personal tutor to support my ds in making the right choices. I want him to stop and consider all of his future options. However, even with my ds present the uni have refused any contact. I know my ds is a grown up, but this is a big decision. Added to that are all of the financial implications, student loans, a flat signed for for the whole of next year and future career/change of degree options. Big decisions to make.

I am interested in your thoughts around the lack of contact by the uni.

Thanks

In sacking disputes, you are being sacked by the organisation that pays you.

At university, you are being sacked by the organisation that you will be paying towards until you are in your fifties, whether it did you any good or not (presumably not in this case).

That makes no difference. You pay for for tuition, not for a degree. Tuition was available, otherwise we would be dealing with breach of contract by the university, not academic action taken against the student.

A nurse is a patient's advocate, even if the patient is fully competent.

So it doesn't always work like that. It humane to enable support to be given - most workplaces do allow such.

I've found dealing with unis difficult, even as a very competent adult. As a recent student it was laughable how incompetent the uni was in registering me for the course. My course had almost finished by the time it was rectified. Admin blamed the tutor, the tutor blames IT, which in turn blamed admin. Regulations were not forwarded to me, nor were they available to get easily off the internet. So it is entirely possible that said student has been told differing accounts. My DD gets told differing things too.

That being said op, if he failed his resit I think something different would be good. It's obviously not for him.

It makes a lot of difference. It is something that you will be paying a percentage of your income to for many years. It is a huge financial commitment.

You really need some proper help if things are going wrong and well before the stage you are being chucked out because you haven't passed the exams.

When things go wrong it is a lot of responsibility for a young person without the worldly experience to tackle university senates and their long strings of rules and laws. Especially when the reason they are failing is that they cannot cope with this, and the failure itself brings on mental health problems that make it even harder to deal with.

If you lose your job, you will get a new one.

I believe you gained the right to representation at work with the new law in 2000

I believe you gained the right to representation at work with the new law in 2000

For disciplinary or grievance hearings. And you can be accompanied by a trade union official or a fellow employee. Not a parent or relative.

Well, I've said what I think anyway - I think they are totally in the right. Lots of wishy washy arguments against it, but nothing that actually constitutes a reason for an organisation to deal with anyone other than the person they contracted with

I am the mother of two recent graduates, one of whom has significant mental health problems but still managed to get a First. She went to a university that was exceptionally supportive but it was still a huge life lesson for her to have to get to grips with the university regs so she met all the deadlines and got all the support she was entitled to. She did it herself. We didn't get involved at all.

I feel that if a student is not coping with the course and can't make sense of the advice/instructions from the university, the answer is not to get the parent to take over or even attend meetings. Tiggytape put it very well dozens of posts ago:

...many students bringing a parent along would not be doing so in the same way that an adult might bring a friend to a disciplinary (i.e. purely as a witness and for moral support). Some parents would feel the need to step in, do all the talking and would basically see it as a higher-stakes parent and teacher meeting. Their adult child giving permission may or may not be because their adult child is being harangued by them to do so - especially if funding and financial reliance is an issue.

I know it sounds harsh, but not everybody is cut out for university. Problems in year 1 may mean the student should have a major rethink.

University employees on the thread seem to have a very low opinion of students and their parents. You get the feeling it's like talking to people who've chosen to work in a zoo but hate the animals. They are so anti parents etc it makes we parents on the thread realise universities are ripe for a major shake up with a lot more power and control passed to the parents and the students.

dog, I have a high opinion of my students, but that's why I don't want to see their parents controlling them.

To extend your comparison, you strike me as someone who thinks that loving zoos means it's a great idea to cram all the animals into tiny cages, and wonders why some people advise against this.

To extend your comparison, you strike me as someone who thinks that loving zoos means it's a great idea to cram all the animals into tiny cages, and wonders why some people advise against this.

chery - to clarify: I think restricting students in this way, by putting their parents in control, and giving them very little freedom, is probably not a good idea.

HTH.

It's not about parental control, rather the moral support in a meeting, to pass the tissues, understand what is being said to the student so that later it can be reiterated to the student at home.

But then, if an 18 year old was being told they had cancer would you think it might be an idea, if the young person wanted it, to have a parent there? Or would you say "deal with it yourself you are an adult? "

Parents in control? Why? Universities only contract with parents when students are parents too. If you as a parent want control over a university, open a university. Until then, it's not your business other than in so far as your child chooses to keep you informed.

head, universities don't refuse students that kind of support - as other people have explained.

The issue is that the OP thinks her DC has given permission for her to be involved, but the response of the university suggests they're not so convinced, and may even have been told an entirely different story.

I have read all of this thread, thank you. I do feel I owe some explanations and updates.

My son isn't at the end of his first year, but second. The misunderstanding seems to be that he 'thought' that as the module he failed isn't actually part of his degree course, he would just need to do two more extra modules alongside his third year. In his mind he knew he would need to work damned hard next year to do his degree work and the extra, but hadn't realised he wouldn't be able to start his next year. Pretty stupid for a four 'A' level A/A* student, I know! So yes 19 year olds can't always manage their lives and in his case brains don't always add up to common sense!

As for me, I suppose that is part of my confusion, I have no idea of what he needs to do, I have no idea about his modules or credits or degree and do leave it all to him. Now I feel I am trying to play catch up to try and help him think it through.

He would have been due to start back at uni next Monday, so a weeks notice seems very short. He is at a Russell group uni in Scotland.

I had already asked my son about any appeals process or remark. A remark would be normal in my primary HT role. However my son said the paper was multiple choice so no chance of the marking being subject to a markers judgement or opinion.

He did pass all other papers and course work.

On the positive he has decided to come home to talk it through and will arrive in the next couple of hours, returning for work on Thursday morning. He has had email contact with his tutor. The university have also offered to meet with me and him and have offered email contact too. Don't think this will be needed. I only wanted to understand and be certain that my son had considered all of his options. I would hate him to look back and realise he had missed an opportunity to make his mistake work for him and to learn from it.

I would also add, that in addition to worrying about him, I did wake at 4am this morning worrying about posting on here and feeling quite hurt by some of the very judgemental comments from posters who know little about me or my son. It is too easy to mistreat other posters with harsh comments based on assumptions. Maybe I shouldn't have shared. In real life or in a post or by email, , I would never treat my friends or staff as some on here have treat me. No better than some of my primary pupils who try to hurt others with their words. I spend my time teaching respect and understanding. Shame on some of you.
A big thank you though to those who gave very sensible and thoughtful advice.

A fellow HT was at a funeral today, of an ex pupil, high flier, Oxbridge, super career, who committed suicide at 25. Makes you think! My son will be fine, he will make his choices, learn a lesson and move on. This young man can't. I will love my son and do my very best to support him with his decisions.

Will let you know the outcomes.

I'm so sorry you feel like that op. Given this is AIBU and the house style is combative. I don't think people by and large stepped over into personal abuse. You got some robust advice, some of which you might well disagree with and your son got derided for being a bit of a plonker, which you've admitted he was.

What may have irked some people was the implication that because you had chosen to give him money to pay his fees, it gave you the right to intervene and that you were ultimately a dissatisfied 'customer'.

In future there's acadenics' corner where those of us who work in HE hang out, you'll get less responses but the time is less frenzied, if that's your bag.

He will be able to claim credits for his first year so even if he doesn't return, all is not lost. He will be able to top them up to a full degree elsewhere.

milly, I am sorry you feel so bad, and I do get why you are worried - but do you not realise how combative your posts have been? All through this thread, you've talked about university faculty as if they're not deserving of any professional respect and as if you don't believe they have any good reason for their actions. It's not surprising people disagree with you and respond in kind.

Don't know if it's already been suggested but I would advise him to speak to the Student Union in case he has grounds for appeal. They should be able to offer some advice.

I think there is a big difference between studying for A levels (or whatever your final school exams may be called) at home, probably with food and laundry service laid on, a quiet place to study and possibly a limit to distractions, and studying in a university environment.

Did his first year results live up to the promise of his A levels?

Before you and DS start looking at academic options, I urge you to get to the bottom of the failed module and the failed resit. How come he failed both?

I think you should listen very carefully to any explanations offered for the way he seems to have misapprehended the regulations wrt the assumptions he held. Were there lots of others in the same boat? The resit was a high stakes exam - did he give you any impression that he understood that this was the case? If you check the university or faculty or department website, what information can you glean on the topic of resits?

The university have also offered to meet with me and him and have offered email contact too. Don't think this will be needed. I only wanted to understand and be certain that my son had considered all of his options. I would hate him to look back and realise he had missed an opportunity to make his mistake work for him and to learn from it.
Since they have now offered, I think it would be a big mistake not to communicate.
If you communicate with his tutor, I would ask about pastoral care available and office hours for advice, and if your DS took advantage of what was offered.
I would also ask about avenues in the university that may be open to him from here. You need all the available information.

I would ask your DS how he went about studying for his resit - did he find a group doing the same exam to meet and hold each other accountable, support each other, share information about regulations? The mistake he made about the regulations and the failure in the module indicate to me that he may have been isolated. Or he is making something up about failing to understand the regs and spent the summer procrastinating.

I hope your DS is OK.

I suspect if he failed, it's because of the usual factors: didn't attend the right lectures, get hands on someone's notes, do enough of the assignments, work hard enough on them, hand them in on time, revise.m

I work at a university. I once had a parent phone up and demand to speak to the Dean because her son hadn't got a place on the football team.

Her son was 20.

Milly with hindsight you ought to have posted this in Education not AIBU. The fact you used AIBU implied very strongly that you felt there was a direct link between paying £9K a year for tuition and having no access to uni staff. I can just about see this from your point of view, but as has been pointed out many times, a) most students payback the loan themselves - it makes far better sense financially even if a parent can afford to stump it up but b) choosing to pay tuition fees yourself doesn't give you some moral high ground to demand special treatment (if that's what it amounts to.

It's all been a bit of a storm in a teacup really hasn't it? Despite all the posts about data protection (which have been blown out of the water by your update) it's clear that the uni are happy to talk to you and your son.

He also- according to you- has the option of re-taking the module(s) this year if he pays for it himself. So if you can afford £9K a year for his fees, why is a small amount of money for a re-take an issue?

One of my DCs who was at a Russell Gp uni got low marks for a module due to illness (DC insisted on sitting the exam even when ill) and although it didn't mean a failure on the course it did mean their degree grade was going to be affected, so they re-sat it (the next year) having paid the exam fee. This resulted in a later than normal graduation and of course, further living expenses for a few months.

I'd also caution you against comparing everything with primary schools. I'm a former educationalist and my opinion of primary schools is that by and large they are very small worlds, often out of touch with anything beyond the school gates. Not all, but some. So it's not good to keep comparing your experience of a primary school head, with the wider world.

You posted on an anon public forum and yes, people hide behind the fact it's anon, and say things they wouldn't in real life - by that I mean being rude and harsh.

A more general point, but some universities are better than others at supporting students with additional needs. The University my DP works at, has a weeks course for freshers with additional needs, before the other students start, teaching them about how university works and sorting out their support plans. If your DC needs additional support, then it is wise to help them check what support is available before they apply.