I'm so sorry it's about disabled bus seats

[YourNewspaperIsShit]

But It's absolutely not the normal "having a dig" thread and if I wasn't torturing myself about the situation I promise I wouldn't post it.

So I don't drip feed: I'm autistic and have an invisible physical disability.

The bus to DD's nursery was just a small one on this occasion and there was one wheelchair/disabled seat. The front seats have 'elderly' signs on and there's a sign on the wheelchair seat saying something like "This seat is for wheelchair users. Small prams and buggies may use this seat but must move if a wheelchair user needs access". Totally acceptable, I have no dispute.

So basically what happened was I got on to pick DD up from nursery, normally we go in the car but only DP drives and he was called to work. I have 6 month old DS in his pram (Silver Cross Wayfarer if it's relevant coz I can't fold it). I was in a lot of pain that day or I would have used his sling, i physically couldn't do it. In fact I kind of lean on the pram like a zimmer frame IYSWIM.

Pay for my ticket, park pram in the space and sit in the disabled seat. Every other seat on the bus is taken. Elderly people in the front seats. Halfway through the journey we reach a bus station and a lady in a wheelchair is in the queue, bus driver tells me to get off. Normally I'd 100% do this but I wouldn't have made DD's pick up.... She is only 4 so can't exactly wait another 30mins for the next bus.

I start having a panic attack with the situation and kind of splutter out that I really need to catch the bus. The absolutely lovely lady in the wheelchair says she's only taking her shopping home and will wait for the next bus.

Bus driver, assuming I guess that I'm just a snotty young entitled mother demanding the seat, continues to tell me to get off the bus. I start to cry.

I manage to choke out that I'm also disabled and get told "aye of course you are love, what kind of person takes a seat from someone in a wheelchair". It then felt like he was pitting us off one another, like some awful 'disability contest' saying things like "go on then what have you got, is it worse?"

The lady eventually gets through to him that she really isn't in a rush and goes out of the station so he can't just sit and wait for her. He reluctantly drives off with a shitty attitude and a grunt

I don't know what I'd have done without her lovely calm demeanor. I'm still absolutely mortified that I didn't get off the bus though, if it wasn't for DD there's no way I'd have stayed on.

Totally prepared to hear I WBU, especially for starting a bus seat thread. But I can't stop thinking about it and have noone to discuss with IRL

In hindsight I would have caught an earlier bus but usually they have big ones with 3 disabled/pram seats so I didn't think.

If you're disabled, can't you get a disabled bus pass? DS1 has one, he has cystic fibrosis.

Who has said the priority for wheelchairs should be taken away?

Sorry but this -Woman has panic attack and is frantically trying to tell driver and other passengers she must collect her child is absolutely not true!

I was talking to myself, "oh god how will I get to nursery", etc. I never addressed the lady or the driver until she kindly spoke to me

Who has said the priority for wheelchairs should be taken away?

The people advocating firmly that sometimes buggies should take priority. You have to take away the hard rule of wheelchair priority if "on occasion" you think it should be given to someone else.

Either its a firm rule or it isn't, there is nothing inbetween.

At the discretion of the wheelchair user as ultimately they do have priority in law but there is nothing wrong with a wheelchair user assessing a situation and realising that at that point someone else actually needs that space more than they do. That's all people have been saying.

If I saw someone with a baby in a normal buggy on oxygen I wouldn't start insisting they move the baby from the space so that we could use it. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the fact that wheelchairs have priority just that I am human I am able to judge each situation on its individual merits.

I see both sides to what you say arsucke - yes a firm rule is needed and the bus driver was adhering to this.
But I also don't think people are saying a buggy should take precedent - I think hey are saying they understand the op was also mobility impaired but unable to use a wheelchair in this instance.
So yes a hard rule is beeded but it also impacted the op's own disability.
I think tne passenger in the wheelchair showed the most awareness in this case and the driver could have handled it better. Yes that space was for the passenger using the wheelchair, not the op. I agree with that.
If the op had a pass which stated she was mobility impaired, the driver might have had to be more diplomatic.

Sorry for all the typos

It doesn't really matter OP, I was just describing what the rest of the bus would've seen. Nothing that would've told them you were using a buggy as a walking frame

"At the discretion of the wheelchair user as ultimately they do have priority in law but there is nothing wrong with a wheelchair user assessing a situation and realising that at that point someone else actually needs that space more than they do. That's all people have been saying.

If I saw someone with a baby in a normal buggy on oxygen I wouldn't start insisting they move the baby from the space so that we could use it. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the fact that wheelchairs have priority just that I am human I am able to judge each situation on its individual merits."

This is what makes the most sense to me, i have been really worried that I took the space even after it was offered and maybe I was meant to do some kind of "oh no you have it", "it's fine you have it" dance. But I think going off how the lady acted this is how she thought. I hope.

At the discretion of the wheelchair user as ultimately they do have priority in law but there is nothing wrong with a wheelchair user assessing a situation and realising that at that point someone else actually needs that space more than they do. That's all people have been saying

No, thats what I have been saying! What they are saying is that wheelchair users should not have a hard priority because sometimes someone else will need that space more than them.
Without bothering to state how that could possibly work in practice.

I think you are reading a different thread to me arseicle!

Sirzy did you miss the many many posts stating that OP had an equal right to the space, that the spaces are for all kinds of disabilitys, that w/c's don't own it, that sometimes w'c users just need to wait, that they don't trump everyone else....?
Thats whatI'm responding to. There are people advocating to remove the automatic right of w/c users to the w/c space.

Although from google it seems they don't have to, since the High Court just did it, when they said a bus company was allowed to leave a w/c user on the side of the road when people with buggies didn't want to fold them!

But even if I wasn't using it as a frame what are disabled parents with prams meant to do? There was literally no space on the bus designed for me at all The only pram space was the wheelchair one. So it's like assuming no disabled people could possibly need space for a baby too.

I have already accepted that it of course was a wheelchair space and I was fully prepared to get off.

But if there's space for the elderly, for the disabled, for wheelchairs and for mothers who can hold their children why isn't there any for mothers who can't remove their children, like PP said if the disabled child is in an ordinary buggy but needs the support of the buggy.

Then it becomes like disabled top trumps and that's what put me in such distress

Op in that case you might need to offer a "no you have it" option next time - because if you are late sometimes it's not the end of the world. As PPs have said, a passenger using a wheelchair is likely to encounter prams on practically every journey they do and therefore face a lot more inconvenience than you do probably.

The clear difference was this was just a baby, not a baby on oxygen so how on earth would the wheelchair user know how much OP needed the seat? How do you expect wheelchair users to make these judgements? And is it fair to expect them, rather than the bus driver, to get into a debate about it whilst the bus is being held up, bearing in mind the possibility the space is simply being taken by someone who wants it and has no need for it or someone who ie twisted their ankle and decided they need it more -a MN'er-- and is prepared to argue it out with the wheelchair user and potentially get aggressive?

"when they said a bus company was allowed to leave a w/c user on the side of the road when people with buggies didn't want to fold them!" That's outrageous

That's why situations like mine end up happening because of arrogant entitled people like that

Yes, OP, its unfortunate that people like that can make it harder for everyone else, and there are a lot of people like that around. If posters would stop pretending that a situation of "everyone just being nice and give seats to who needs them" could possibly work, we might actually get somewhere!

Arsicle I think there's disparity between

• what the law says
• what space is available
• what a disabled parent who needs both a w/c and a buggy is supposed to do
• awareness of invisible disabilities

That's a lot of disparities. No wonder these threads get so convoluted.

But yes, I'm not denying the space was for the passenger using a wheelchair.

'I was fully prepared to get off' - well no you weren't, you made that clear by stating that you weren't going to get off.

I'm not sure the bus driver was too wrong in trying to stand up for the wheelchair user against a pram taking up their space, makes a nice change I'd say. It's not like he could tell that you use the pram to lean on as you walk and that's why you got one that you can't fold. The wheelchair user might be used to just waiting for the next bus instead of being embarrassed by making a fuss.

Maybe you need to leave enough time to be able to get later buses if you have to use a non-folding pram in the wheelchair space.

If the rule was wheelchair priority but sometimes a pushchair priority, then you know that soon it would always be taken by a pushchair,
No, that's not what I said. I did not say that sometimes pushchairs should take priority, I said that sometimes they should be treated as a wheelchair - there is a vital difference. Sometimes pushchairs should be treated as wheelchairs because they are a disability aid. Often that is for the child, but occasionally (such as in this case) it is for the parent.

And how do you know whether its a person using a pushchair as a disability aid or a person using a pushchair as an I'm entitled to do what I want aid? Quiz them all? Administer a test?
So because there is a risk of some people lying, no provision should be made for anyone who is not obviously disabled?
A lot of disabled people have a disabled bus pass - surely this information could be included on that. You can't lie to get one, you have to provide evidence, they have the holder's photo on them.

Launch your own campaign for buggies as mobility aids, the wheelchair users have been running theirs for many years.
Yes, let's get disabled people fighting against each other rather than supporting each other - genius idea.

Either its a firm rule or it isn't, there is nothing inbetween.
Then the rule needs to be - wheelchairs and other mobility aids that cannot be folded.
Wheelchairs, SN buggies, Electric scooters, non-folding walking frames etc
All disabled people who need a disability aid to get out and about should have equal access. If there is insufficient space, that is what needs addressing, not by reducing the number of disabled people who can travel on busses.

This is one of the few situations were it is not black or white... W/c user vs parent unable to fold buggy because of disability
OP you are saying you would have left the space to the other lady if she hadn't told you to stay, so considering the circumstances I would say fair enough.
If you both wanted the space than she should have gotten it.
The bus driver was BU I think.

I was once waiting at a bus stop with my very small twin babies, a w/c user arrived, she must have seen my face drop when I realized it would mean for me to wait for the next bus as she said she would wait for the next bus so I could get on. I said no, I would wait, but just the fact that she offered made all the difference to me. Not saying she had to, of course.

I did not say that sometimes pushchairs should take priority, I said that sometimes they should be treated as a wheelchair - there is a vital difference

There really isn't, a pushchair is NOT a wheelchair, no matter how you use it.

All disabled people who need a disability aid to get out and about should have equal access. If there is insufficient space, that is what needs addressing, not by reducing the number of disabled people who can travel on busses

So you ARE saying that wheelchairs should not get priority at all? That a zimmer frame or crutches or a woman leaning on a buggy should all get equal priority?

Of course there is insufficient space for every single combination of people, ITS A BUS NOT A CONCERT HALL.
Christ on a bike, have some logic.

"'I was fully prepared to get off' - well no you weren't, you made that clear by stating that you weren't going to get off."

At what point in this whole thread have I said once that, that happened? You can't just make parts of it up! I never said I wasn't getting off, I was in visible distress and the lady was absolutely brilliant and said she didn't need to get anywhere in a rush and didn't mind waiting.

Arseicle I am saying that ALL disabled people who NEED a disability aid that cannot be folded, should have equal access.
Should a child with a walking frame be removed from a bus for a wheelchair user?
Who on earth actually thinks it's a good idea to pit the most vulnerable disabled people against each other to compete over services that they all need?
A bus does not have to be a concert hall to provide more disabled access. What is currently provided is clearly inadequate.

"So you ARE saying that wheelchairs should not get priority at all? That a zimmer frame or crutches or a woman leaning on a buggy should all get equal priority? hmm"

Surely all people with limited mobility should have equal priority? Otherwise we end up with a horrible system of discriminating against some people because they don't fit into an arbitrarily assigned category. I don't anyone should have their ability to travel and lead a full life impeded because a third party has decided they aren't sufficiently disabled. That would be incredibly cruel.

Neither the Op or the lady in the wheelchair were wrong, the bus company were for using buses that create this situation in the first place.