I'm so sorry it's about disabled bus seats

[YourNewspaperIsShit]

But It's absolutely not the normal "having a dig" thread and if I wasn't torturing myself about the situation I promise I wouldn't post it.

So I don't drip feed: I'm autistic and have an invisible physical disability.

The bus to DD's nursery was just a small one on this occasion and there was one wheelchair/disabled seat. The front seats have 'elderly' signs on and there's a sign on the wheelchair seat saying something like "This seat is for wheelchair users. Small prams and buggies may use this seat but must move if a wheelchair user needs access". Totally acceptable, I have no dispute.

So basically what happened was I got on to pick DD up from nursery, normally we go in the car but only DP drives and he was called to work. I have 6 month old DS in his pram (Silver Cross Wayfarer if it's relevant coz I can't fold it). I was in a lot of pain that day or I would have used his sling, i physically couldn't do it. In fact I kind of lean on the pram like a zimmer frame IYSWIM.

Pay for my ticket, park pram in the space and sit in the disabled seat. Every other seat on the bus is taken. Elderly people in the front seats. Halfway through the journey we reach a bus station and a lady in a wheelchair is in the queue, bus driver tells me to get off. Normally I'd 100% do this but I wouldn't have made DD's pick up.... She is only 4 so can't exactly wait another 30mins for the next bus.

I start having a panic attack with the situation and kind of splutter out that I really need to catch the bus. The absolutely lovely lady in the wheelchair says she's only taking her shopping home and will wait for the next bus.

Bus driver, assuming I guess that I'm just a snotty young entitled mother demanding the seat, continues to tell me to get off the bus. I start to cry.

I manage to choke out that I'm also disabled and get told "aye of course you are love, what kind of person takes a seat from someone in a wheelchair". It then felt like he was pitting us off one another, like some awful 'disability contest' saying things like "go on then what have you got, is it worse?"

The lady eventually gets through to him that she really isn't in a rush and goes out of the station so he can't just sit and wait for her. He reluctantly drives off with a shitty attitude and a grunt

I don't know what I'd have done without her lovely calm demeanor. I'm still absolutely mortified that I didn't get off the bus though, if it wasn't for DD there's no way I'd have stayed on.

Totally prepared to hear I WBU, especially for starting a bus seat thread. But I can't stop thinking about it and have noone to discuss with IRL

In hindsight I would have caught an earlier bus but usually they have big ones with 3 disabled/pram seats so I didn't think.

I'm at some of these hysterical responses. Think about what actually happened according to the OP:

-Woman gets on full bus with buggy

-Woman puts buggy in wheelchair space and sits on seat next to space

-Bus stops, wheelchair user in queue

-Wheelchair user unable to board as buggy is in wheelchair space

-Bus driver asks woman to move

-Woman has panic attack and is frantically trying to tell driver and other passengers she must collect her child

-Bus driver insists she moves

-Wheelchair user says don't worry about it I'll wait for the next one

How can anyone blame the bus driver for the direction of his decision? Yes, the delivery sounds unreasonable. But do you seriously think a bus driver should be expected to pause, think "that woman probably has invisible physical disabilities and is using a buggy as a wheelchair. She could well have aspergers which means she won't be able to deal with this conversation as a NT person would. I better leave her be and tell wheelchair user to wait"

Seriously?! Does anyone think That's what should happen? If so you're bonkers and need to realise it.

And as for more disabled spaces- there is always a chance a disabled person will have to move for another, or will be unable to board, even if the WHOLE BUS is disabled spaces. So that's no argument

Then I think this thread has been brilliant for highlighting that.

Here is a new information poster being used for my particular condition

Arseicle - living up to your name? The pushchair on this occasion is an aid for a disabled person. It's not going to turn into a priority for all pushchairs, just pushchairs of disabled parents who could otherwise not get out. I think badges or cards are fab and there should be more help for disabled parents of young children. It's incredibly hard for people like the OP so let's open our minds to the fact that not being in a wheelchair can be sometimes more disabling for a disabled person due to attitudes like the driver and some mumsnet posters.

Please mumsnet take on a campaign for invisible disabilities, there are loads of us parents out there who this could really help. Attitudes need to change, especially in the face of the government and media agenda to vilify the disabled.

Arsicle - what is your view on special needs buggies? Or "normal" buggies being used by a disabled child?

In this case a disabled person, with mobility issues would have had to get off the bus because at that point she did need that space. The fact that she normally uses a sling but her disability that day meant she couldn't says a lot about her need for the space at this point IMO.

Would you expect someone with a Zimmer frame to get off?

Totally agree shasta. This thread is very frustrating been trying to hammer these points home repeatedly but some people won't /can't get it!

Would you expect someone with a Zimmer frame to get off?

A Zimmer frame can be foldable. There are a million options for pushchairs that fold (mine did, and my eighty two year old aunt used it in place of her walker when she went out with me, so it was certainly strong enough for that purpose). I would expect anyone who knows they need public transport to choose a folding option where it is available in order to assist in making sure more space is available for others who may not have such a choice.

As I have said before, you are being totally unrealistic to expect the general public to take the "using a buggy as a wheelchair" argument seriously. It's a bloody pushchair. They will not believe you. They will think you are lying.

No, you're not listening.
The pushchair on this occasion is an aid for a disabled person. It's not going to turn into a priority for all pushchairs, just pushchairs of disabled parents who could otherwise not get out

And how do you know whether its a person using a pushchair as a disability aid or a person using a pushchair as an I'm entitled to do what I want aid? Quiz them all? Administer a test?
You're not thinking about this from a person in a wheelchairs point of view at all. Bus comes along; wheelchair space has a buggy in it. They can't get on, because the bus driver is no longer allowed to tell them to move because they might need it? And the next bus, and the next bus....
And lets not forget that in your "lets accomodate everyone at all times scenario", we're going to have to rank people and bump them off buses continuasly. Wheelchair user beats zimmer frame but buggies beat both, unless you also have x or y....how do you actually think this will work?

A wheelchair user has so many barriers to life already, now you want to roll back the very hard won rights they have to access the buses, because some people might need to lean on their pushchairs? And I'm the one being an arse?

Launch your own campaign for buggies as mobility aids, the wheelchair users have been running theirs for many years.

Thanks then Dontyoulovecalpol for highlighting just how ignorant and intolerant the general public, including you, is about invisible disabilities.

And thanks to you, Mangoes, for highlighting that in an effort win the "inclusive and diverse" medal, you're actually advocating stealing disability access rights from people in wheelchairs.

But this isn't a normal scenario. Sometimes people do need to think outside the box a bit. Thankfully the wheelchair user in this case did.

Nobody is saying wheelchair users have it easy. But it's not some sort of game of top trumps!

This isn't a normal pram on bus situation, when yes it should be folded etc. This is one of the few occasions where things are a bit more complicated.

Sn buggies are wheelchairs. The problems are when you have a disabled child in an ordinary buggy or pram.

Op you weren't being unreasonable but nor was the driver (he couldn't see your problems). I definitely think some sort of badge / card or something could help. Maybe what you do is carry a card "I have a communication & physical disability. I physically can't fold the buggy but I'm happy for you to fold it and put back up for me" throw the issue onto the driver to help.

The problem is that their are always people who are happy to abuse what ever priority system is put in place for others, it be seats on buses, disabled or parent / child spaces plenty people abuse them.

The mums who are suggesting a smaller buggy are missing the point that you need something sturdy to lean on.

I wonder how people would feel if you were recovering from a c-section or other major op. Unable to walk far, but still want baby in a comfy pram, and still have a school run to do. Would they still expect you to go and fold the buggy???

That shouldn't be a problem tnough honking. If a child, or adult is disabled and as a result needs something bulky to help support them - be that a wheelchair, frame, SN buggy or normal buggy then they should be able to use that space.

The problem comes because so many people without disabilities have abused the spaces that we end up with a sort of top trumps of who deserves it more.

I certainly wouldn't expect a disabled child in a ordinary buggy to move or get off so Ds could get on in his SN buggy - we would simply wait. I would expect someone with a buggy in normal circumstances to move though,

It is it ignorant, for exactly the reason arseicle states.

The general public are of course ignorant about invisible disabilities. They are invisible. The general public will never know the ins and outs of every disorder or disability. The general public will never be able to look at someone with an invisible disability and recognise it. It is INVISABLE

Wasn't advocating any such thing Arseicle I was defending the rights of a disabled woman to use this space in a fairly unique situation where her child's buggy was supporting her mobility issues. You have to be a special kind of narrow minded not to think outside the box in this scenario and realise she needed the space just as much as the lady in the wheelchair, if not more as her autism made it difficult for her to explain her case? Also not out to win any medals even ones as poorly labelled as the one you describe

This thread shows that discrimination against hidden disabilities is alive and well. I cannot stand disability top trumps, and yet that's exactly what's happened on this thread, yet again.

I feel sorry for the OP, both for her original experience and for the shameful way some posters have treated her, on a site that's supposed to be supportive of disabled people and hidden disabilities.

Wake up, the world is not black and white!!!!

So this is how my logic worked regarding accessibility - If me and the lady were both in the queue at that stop, therefore the seat being completely empty.... She would have still seen my panic attack and still kindly offered me the space. The space really was accessible to her, I was going to get off the bus. She gave me the space.

If someone NT and able-bodied was going to use a disabled toilet but started to leave because I arrived then it would be accessible to me imo. Id just have to wait a couple of seconds while they got out the door. A lot less than if someone decided to use it.

I hadn't decided to keep the bus seat when the bus pulled up but I did accept her kind offer of it, because I felt like I had no other choice with regards to DD. And honestly it would be a bit rude to then say no thank you after she went to the effort of scolding the driver

I wouldn't either Sirzy. It's non disabled parents of non disabled children refusing to move/fold that create the problems.

If you're only thinking of this one situation without seeing how it would impact on every other situation, you shouldn't be giving an opinion at all, because its inane.
Either you have hard priority for wheelchairs or you don't. If you take every possible situation into account every time, then that priority is gone, and you ARE removing access rights from wheelchair users. And if you're not taking into account every single possible situation every time, then you;re a hypocrite.
Cant have it both ways.

" You have to be a special kind of narrow minded not to think outside the box in this scenario and realise she needed the space just as much as the lady in the wheelchair, if not more as her autism made it difficult for her to explain her case? "

How is that narrow minded? How would anyone on the bus know any of that?

Did you see my post of 09.48? I'm gobsmacked that you're calling anyone narrow minded or informant based on what they saw. You're being ridiculous

No I don't want a person using a wheelchair to have that space taken away.
I think if the op had a pass or a card that alerted the driver that she was mobility impaired, that would have helped in this situation.
And as she didn't, then the wheelchair did take priority, just as the law says.
I'm sure in this instance the op has learnt a lot from this thread and should she found herself in this situation again, will be able to manage it better.
I think one thing that stood out is that she didn't want to be late but it's worth noting a person using a wheelchair might not want to be late either.
I think his thread highlights that there is a lot of work to be done yet regarding invisible disabilities.
I don't think it is diminishing to the rights of people who use wheelchairs to also say the impact of invisible disabilities are considerable too.
I don't think it is top trumps.
Clearly there are inflexible and flexible situations.
The inflexible takes priority.
I think this op got caught out and is reflecting on that. Which is a good thing.

OP, your situation is not what is really being debated at this point, and still fits with a sensible argument anyway.
A proper priority was given to the wheelchair user, as it should have been. They kindly assessed the situation and gave their priority to you. All good, thats fine.

But other people are using your situation to state that the other person should not have the priority in the first place, and should not have had the option of getting on that bus at all.

You can. You can think of others and without removing the priority. I find it quite sad someone can be so vocal about rights for one group when that could easily be at the detriment of another group.

Well said arseicle