I'm so sorry it's about disabled bus seats

[YourNewspaperIsShit]

But It's absolutely not the normal "having a dig" thread and if I wasn't torturing myself about the situation I promise I wouldn't post it.

So I don't drip feed: I'm autistic and have an invisible physical disability.

The bus to DD's nursery was just a small one on this occasion and there was one wheelchair/disabled seat. The front seats have 'elderly' signs on and there's a sign on the wheelchair seat saying something like "This seat is for wheelchair users. Small prams and buggies may use this seat but must move if a wheelchair user needs access". Totally acceptable, I have no dispute.

So basically what happened was I got on to pick DD up from nursery, normally we go in the car but only DP drives and he was called to work. I have 6 month old DS in his pram (Silver Cross Wayfarer if it's relevant coz I can't fold it). I was in a lot of pain that day or I would have used his sling, i physically couldn't do it. In fact I kind of lean on the pram like a zimmer frame IYSWIM.

Pay for my ticket, park pram in the space and sit in the disabled seat. Every other seat on the bus is taken. Elderly people in the front seats. Halfway through the journey we reach a bus station and a lady in a wheelchair is in the queue, bus driver tells me to get off. Normally I'd 100% do this but I wouldn't have made DD's pick up.... She is only 4 so can't exactly wait another 30mins for the next bus.

I start having a panic attack with the situation and kind of splutter out that I really need to catch the bus. The absolutely lovely lady in the wheelchair says she's only taking her shopping home and will wait for the next bus.

Bus driver, assuming I guess that I'm just a snotty young entitled mother demanding the seat, continues to tell me to get off the bus. I start to cry.

I manage to choke out that I'm also disabled and get told "aye of course you are love, what kind of person takes a seat from someone in a wheelchair". It then felt like he was pitting us off one another, like some awful 'disability contest' saying things like "go on then what have you got, is it worse?"

The lady eventually gets through to him that she really isn't in a rush and goes out of the station so he can't just sit and wait for her. He reluctantly drives off with a shitty attitude and a grunt

I don't know what I'd have done without her lovely calm demeanor. I'm still absolutely mortified that I didn't get off the bus though, if it wasn't for DD there's no way I'd have stayed on.

Totally prepared to hear I WBU, especially for starting a bus seat thread. But I can't stop thinking about it and have noone to discuss with IRL

In hindsight I would have caught an earlier bus but usually they have big ones with 3 disabled/pram seats so I didn't think.

There are, as usual , people who are failing to read the thread.

The OP's hidden physical disability causes her sufficient pain to make it impossible for her to hold her baby and fold her buggy.

Why does that seem so hard to understand?

OP, you didn't commit a social faux pas. I have no disability but I find myself burbling my words when I'm challenged, even when I'm in the right. If the other lady confidently and graciously offered you the space then she wanted you to have it. Don't feel bad about it.

I do empathise with the buggy and mobility aid dilemma. Before I got my guide doc I used a long cane but also had to push a buggy. It's impossible. Guide dog and buggy is also had. I've done it but bloody hell its like a Krypton Factor Challenge.

Of course wheelchair users should get priority for the
Wheelchair space
I would complain about the bus driver op he handled it badly , he ended up making both you and the lady in the wheelchair feel bad, .
There is no easy answer to your problem.
But as a carer to some one who is in a wheelchair and always will be for life , i am glad that at last bus companies are enforcing this,
There should be something to cover non visible disablties . But the idea that because a wheelchair users disablity is visiable it some how easier is bull, a life of never walking is not easy

Why should disabled people have to allow extra time for travelling?

But the lady in this story who is a wheelchair user had to wait. What if she had been in a hurry to get somewhere? Would you still then say that the OP shouldn't allow extra time if she has to take a pram off to allow a wheelchair user to access the space designated for them to travel in? To access the one place on the bus that they can actually travel?

One disabled person should not have to suffer in order to allow access for another disabled person.
There needs to be better disabled access for more disabled people.
Pull down seats would offer much more flexible space for people.

Midnite no disabled people should have to factor in so much extra travel time! It shouldn't be a matter of top trumps.
The point is that if the bus was more accessible, then neither disabled person would have to allow more time than a longer time to travel than a non-disabled person does.

If the entire front row were flip down seats for priority seating and the row behind for the elderly/priority too then I could have flipped up a seat and put the pram in there unless it's something to do with weight restrictions. I do think that they've done good with the bigger buses but what's the point if they are going to still use the old ones

I'm sorry, but as human beings I believe that we are all, deep down, a little selfish. Whilst I feel for the lady in the wheelchair, in the same breath I don't blame you OP, if there really was not anything else in which you could do.

Just because you weren't in a wheelchair does not mean that you were not physically tired, exhausted. And with kids too, you know... it's not easy.

Besides, you were already on the bus. In my experience if a bus was full then a bus was full. Driver sounds like an arse but then again that doesn't surprise me.

I hate buses.

Its. A wheelchair space,however many kids you have
How ever tired you are
Its a wheelchair space

I have a similar disability so empathise. I've ended up avoiding getting buses or even going out because it's just too difficult. I'm relieved to be out of the baby/toddler days but it's still bloody hard and I'm living half a life due to access difficulties and lack of understanding. I carry a folding walking stick now so I can use it if needed but also as a visible message if I feel vulnerable - eg standing on a bus/train is agony. If people were more considerate of hidden disability then we may be able to live a more fulfilling life, a life more like a non disabled person. Being a disabled parent is particularly hard as their is no support and no entitlement to financial help if you need help with parenting responsibilities. It's extremely isolating and lonely. Being in a wheelchair isn't necessarily a sign of someone in a worse condition, personally I'd be more comfortable in a chair for some situations, I'd be able to do more and for longer with less pain. I'd be treated more thoughtfully despite being in less need in some ways. This is just me and I know each situation and person is unique in how they'd cope. It's not black and white so some sensitivity would be helpful.

Sorry but the idea that you are treated better cos your in a wheelchair is bullshit
Read this thread, wheelchair user unable to access the one wheelchair space on bus
I hate these threads as they are always anti wheelchair users,
Will hide it now as my wheelchair user will never walk or have kids
Yet they are deemed. Etter off than the op
Bollocks

Samcro I understand you're annoyed but at no point was the lady unable to access the space. I was getting up when she told me to sit back down, she chose not to use the space.

I think it's true that people don't stop to think about the impact of being a wheelchair user 24/7 and the daily barriers people face.
All I can add to that, in terms of consideration given, there's an issue with visible and invisible disabilities.

I've had both - until I started using a cane and then a guide dog, my deafblindness wasn't really visible. I avoided using buses because I found it too hard to walk further back but using the priority seats, made me anxious because I didn't look like I needed one.
Now I have CandyDog I use buses all the time because it's obvious why I need a priority seat.
So info sympathise with those who have invisible disabilities.
And as I said upthread - it's not a wheelchair space - my guide dog is my mobility aid, not all mobility aids are wheelchairs.
But having said that I would gladly move for a person using a wheelchair because my guide dog will squeeze under a seat if need be but I would bed someone else to give up a seat so my dog is safe on the moving bus while I hold her harness.

Samcro the point is that NEITHER disabled person should have to suffer or miss out. The fault is with the bus and the shitty accessibility that public transport offers.
Both disabled people needed a space, both should be able to use the bus at the same time.
We should not be setting disabled people up against each other.

Sadly, even some brand new buses only have a wheelchair space, with no additional space for buggies, large luggage etc. This is the interior of an Optare Solo SR, which is probably becoming the most ubiquitous midi bus on the roads in this country. There's a small wheelchair bay behind the driver's seat - possibly not big enough for some powerchairs. I've seen these vehicles used to busy routes and they're often used on routes where they're the only bus at all.

The company beginning with S don't have any of those up here, but a quick google search shows they do have some elsewhere, so on a route that doesn't routinely get double deckers, or even full size single deckers, there's no guarantee that, even if they got new buses for the route, they wouldn't be solos!

Just be thankful your local company isn't the one beginning with F. Have been doing a bit of travelling with my bus enthusiast son and, wherever we go, the one beginning with F has a notably ancient and shabby bus fleet.

I'm just going to stop wittering on about it being a space for all passengers with a disability since I'm being totally ignored :)

This thread has gone a very strange way for a mumsnet wheelchair space thread. I'm sorry you were treated rudely OP but YWBU. It's a wheelchair space, not a disabled space (they're not like priority seats or disabled toilets/car parking spaces) and they have to have priority. If the lady was genuinely happy to wait then great, you were lucky. But I hope she didn't feel like she had to say that.

Usually hardly anyone would say you were being reasonable. It doesn't matter how many reasons or excuses an OP comes up with, the overwhelming opinion is that the space should be the wheelchair users.

I don't know what your answer is but it shouldn't be the priority use of the wheelchair space. Because you are highly unlikely ever to come across a wheelchair user on a bus again and can continue to use the space 99% of the time. But a wheelchair user is very likely to come across a buggy user every single time they use the bus and, unless they are given absolute priority, will be left without access to their space and the bus full stop the majority of the time. So it would be really awful for you to have to give way to a wheelchair user but it would be a one off.

Manic your post has sent me off reading legislation about wheelchair spaces and priority seating.
It's made me think - I actually don't sit in the space that can fit a wheelchair/buggy but opposite them in other flip down seats. that are not as roomy (that's the design in my area). But I hasn't seen the distinction between the two / that one is priority (non wheelchair) and one is wheelchair sized. I just used common sense as in I can fit here with CandyDog so I will, leaving more room for others.

I sympathise with the distress you must have felt.

But what should the bus driver have done?

He is faced with a person obviously in a wheelchair who is looking to use a wheelchair space. You are a person with an invisible disability with a pram.

He felt he was standing up for his (technically legally entitled to the wheelchair space) wheelchair customer. If she had really wanted to get on, should he really have said "Sorry, but the lady with the pram here says she has an invisible disability and that is a higher priority for the wheelchair space than you in your wheelchair?

I think the bus driver was also in an impossible situation.

Obviously he didn't need to be rude about it and/or upset you. But what if the wheelchair lady had insisted on using the wheelchair space? What should he have done then?

MyWineTIme "Samcro the point is that NEITHER disabled person should have to suffer or miss out. The fault is with the bus and the shitty accessibility that public transport offers. Both disabled people needed a space, both should be able to use the bus at the same time. We should not be setting disabled people up against each other."

All this is very true but given the current situation that there's a wheelchair space, what should the driver today have done? It's not his fault either. I know, petition for more spaces etc. but that can only happen in the future, it does not solve the problem as it stands today...

Myla That's an impossible situation as you seemed to have missed where I've repeatedly said I was getting off the bus. At no point did I demand to stay on the bus so he wasn't actually defending anyone

It was the lady in the wheelchair that told me to stay in the space

Sorry Your, I did miss the bit where you said repeatedly you were getting off the bus . I'm sorry you've had an upsetting experience though, it can't have been nice.