AIBU to say NO to an Islamic wedding?

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Sorry about the USER 1 TRILLION AND 68..

I have created a new account as I cannot remember my account details for my main account. I am a regular user but did not want this linked to my main account.
I have been with DP for 5 years. We are expecting our first baby in December and we have been engaged for 1 year. We decided not to get married until we had a new larger property which is fine.
DP’s mum and dad are from different religions, his mum is a Muslim and she was shunned from her family when marrying her husband. My DP and his siblings were christened but raised with no religion. I was raised with no religion.
Once the older family members of DP’s mum passed away she slowly was accepted into the family again. She now practices Islam and fasts, celebrates EID etc.
When we first announced the pregnancy she mentioned us having an Islamic ceremony. Myself and DP both said no- end of conversation.

Last night his mum asks us both if we would do this ceremony, that she doesn’t ask anything of us and this will make her happy. I said no immediately whereas DP said no then when he was told it would be a 10 min thing and would not take much effort I could see he was thinking about it.

Once we got home he asked me and I said no and it’s not up for discussion. He asked me why not and I said no I am not religious, have no interest in Islam and I do not need a reason tbh. He said he wasn’t interested but it would make his mum happy. I said that I will make him happy if it was something he genuinely wanted but I am not in a relationship with his mum and do not need to make her happy.

We argued where he said that it means a lot to his mum, but nothing to me and would not affect my life in any way. He looked pissed off and said that I should not say I would do anything for him if that wasn’t true..
He is not religious at all and doesn’t care but from my point it will make his mum look more respectable in her community. AIBU to say no?

I am upset this morning and it is difficult to conversate with him about it as really I have no reason not to do it apart from I am not interested in Islam!!

In your shoes I would be so very upset at DP for even suggesting I go along with MIL wishes, it wouldn't even be a question of being unreasonable. The whole proposition (and agree with the many reasons given by PP's before me) is so incredibly ludicrous but if you add to that the hurting/mutilating a child of mine...hell a tiny baby!...I would be so very upset at DP and in floods of tears at the mere suggestion.

Someone who truly loves you would see how upset you are, drop it since it's completely hypocritical and crazy for all the reasons described before and to protect his unborn child.

If that DP was still insensitive enough to go about it then I would dry my tears, and get tough...and by tough I mean I would be fully prepared to walk away from a relationship where my "reasonableness" and feelings about the topic was even questioned.

You are expecting a baby, this must be so very difficult for you.
Stay strong but also leave him in no doubt as to how very cruel this whole situation is when all you should both be worrying about is your future, and a ceremony that will mark your commitment to each other, in the way that reflects your wishes, and your wishes only.
Noone has the right to take that away from you.

I am sorry to read that you've had to come to MN for advice on what to do next, and wish your DP will wake up and support you and put an end to the discussion with MIL for good.

Take care and try not to stress, you are expecting a baby, you are in love and have 100% the right/deserve to have the wedding (or no wedding) ceremony you and DP would like.

DP and I (nearly 25 years ago) after 4 years living together and being pregnant with 1st DS decided we could not be bothered with all the families expectations but did want to get married.
We had actually decided to get married within the first six months and went on to buy a house together in our first year living together.
But I am a (non practicing) Catholic, his parents Baptist, and some expected a big wedding, others had different ideas...so we kept putting off the big day, we couldn't face the hassle of pleasing everyone...
Once we realised we were going to have our first baby it became rather more urgent (for us at least) so do you know what we did?
We booked a civil wedding ceremony with just a weeks' notice. We invited our closest and dearest friends (who are still close friends to this day). We got married and had a ball with those friends in a nice little country pub.
We told family afterwards.
My MIL was pretty annoyed and peeved but got over it.

We look back on that day with fondness and are really glad we did it our way and left all family out of it.
I just mention this because it might be the most elegant and easiest solution for you both if you just present family with "fait accompli" so no need to have another wedding now, is there?

Good Luck, I think your DP will love you enough to understand if you just show the strength of your feelings about it. YANBU!!

I doubt if anyone would bother flying someone in from abroad to do it when you could just go to a doctor or clinic.

Its not available on the NHS for religious reasons AFAIK- I don't think the MIL was talking about flying someone in- assume she meant a local Iman - assume they do it for free as opposed to a private doctor who would charge for the "privilege"

Why would an imam do it? what medical qualifications would they have? Also they have costs, insurance, etc, to pay, so why would they do it for free. These ludicrous assumptions are what makes any MN discussion of religious matters descend into nonsense....

HelloSunshine11, I think you are very wrong. There will presumably be a certificate which confirms this was an Islamic wedding. Which means children would be expected to be raised as Muslims, and indeed in many countries would be considered as Muslims.

Fine in the UK, but really, really tricky if you were to go overseas. Or if something then goes wrong with the marriage. The father would then have every right to claim his children were Muslim and that he should influence key things like circumcision, dress, education, family contact and so on. He may not be religious, but if things went sour it gives him (and his mother) a lot of power.

Your dp's mum's comments about circumcision are hugely worrying and I would make it very clear if this attempted it will be a matter for the police. I would not allow her any unsupervised contact if you are fearful she will try and arrange a circumcision

The idea that this woman wants to try to push and emotionally blackmail you in to a ceremony, that you have made clear you do not want, is very worrying.

Please stand your ground.

Whether other Muslims or Imans would find this offensive or not, is not the point. You were asked, you said no. No means no.

I am afraid your dp is already being hugely disloyal to you by siding with his mum over you.

Ths is a huge red flag.

Please do not tell him you will do anything to make him happy. Because if making his mum happy is more important to him than making you happy, he will not make you happy.

Religion is, as you know, a very strong force. It can be used for good or ill. By pressurising you into a religious practice against your will it is being used for ill.

I knew I could only marry a Christian, it was my choice. We discussed all things and even decided to have our children dedicated and not baptised because we could not agree!

Starting your married life with this degree of compromise expected from you by you dp and his mother is VERY unhealthy for your future plans. Make sure dp knows no means no. If he loves you he will respect you.

Good luck.

Perhaps I'm not terribly principled, but it just didn't seem like a big deal to me to participate in a ceremony just to make other people happy. I wanted (and had) a drama-free day.

I got married in the US, so I have no idea what the marriage laws are like in this country.

By your own admission, it's more than just a ceremony. It has inheritance implications (which of course may work in your favour). But it may have other legal (probably not) and social ramifications getting married under some system you don't understand.

But it's also a boundaries issue. I also have parents that tried this (they are religious, i am not). They are otherwise great parents who respect boundaries, but on this one they overstepped. for the life of me I don't understand parents who think it's ok to dictate wedding terms to make them happy. Obviously there is a cultural gap: in some cultures weddings are less about the couple and more about the parents.

and obviously, boundaries are an issue if circumcision plans are being drawn up.

I'd say no.

an islamic marriage is not worth much more than the paper its written on, its purely symbolic and in the uk its only a civil marriage that stands up in court. a nikah is the same as a handfasting or any other solemn but spiritual marriage ceremony. other counries realise the low status of a uk performed nikah and also require official secular marriage certs to award rights etc.

OP, you will have to put your foot down VERY firmly. Be rude if you have to. I have stood in your shoes and had to voice my opinion in no uncertain terms.....they were relentless!!!!!!
Be careful and be firm. I have NC with my IL's and it's great! But I am much further down the line than you.
FWIW, when I worked for the NHS, babies were circumcised for religious reasons. They were mostly referred to a Pakistani surgeon who worked with us at the time, although things may have changed since then. Good luck OP!

People sometimes her more religious at key points in life, the death of a parent,marriage, birth of a baby, old age. He was not raised Muslim but his um is Muon, his could influence him.

I'd not be getting of for a quick ceremony privately until you know he is going to respect you and take your wishes seriously.

Whether a person performing a circumcision is paid or not seems immaterial here. The op's dp' mum was already looking into getting someone to do this! That is fucking scary!

Needmoresleep, if that's the case then I agree that's entirely different. The OP (as far as I can see) hasn't explained what exactly the ceremony would be which is why I said if it's no more than a blessing I would go along with it.

Get more religious! Not her ore religious!

... His mum is Muslim, this could influence him....

Sorry on phone and making a hash of typing! Sorry.

www.needlepartners.com/are-muslim-marriages-recognised-in-UK

I think I'd find out what was involved first.

She's your mother in law and I think some willingness to be flexible will go a long way.

I don't think you're necessarily bu but I think approaching it with an open mind, given how important it is to your dh to be (even if only to make his mum happy) could be helpful.

confuggled - why on earth would anyone go through all that palaver instead of just saying "no"?

The big lie here is that this is just a little thing. It isn't. MIL is asking you to contract one of the most important decisions of your life in a system which you neither fully understand nor believe in at all.

If it's such a little thing why does it mean so much to her? Will she then see you and your DH as "sort of" muslims? Will she then think that gives her carte blanche to push her agenda further?

As for the circumcision, I know this is considered the norm in many cultures, but not here and her opinion on your son's genitals is totally superfluous and any attempt on her part to arrange a circumcision I would regard as a grave violation of her relationship with you and probably a deal breaker. How dare she if she knows you are against it. She is just assuming that her life view will be accepted.

And remember "No is a complete sentence!"

Having said all that, try and discuss it rationally and calmly if you want your marriage to run smooth.

pilplori why would the op need to work out exactly what the ceremony entails?

She might be able to read all about it but might still not really understand what others might perceive by it.

She is not Muslim, her dp is not Muslim and she has said if he were, she would not be marrying him.

The whole issue has raised a big red flag of her dp's willingness to sacrifice her wishes for his mum's happiness, and this woman's desire to impose her unwelcome wishes on her future daughter in law and son's big day.

Her comemts on circumcision are deeply worrying.

There are lots of times one can compromise, willingly, about things that are not as fundamental as bodily autonomy and religion.

I hope the OP stands her ground . She is most definitely not being unreasonable.

Yanbu.

What about cultural elements. Talk to her about what you'd be comfortable with and not comfortable with. If I was marrying a Chinese man I'd have an English wedding but with little touches that made it clear I was accepting of that culture with the flowers, or what ever little touch that would be enough to make the family happy without ruining my vision in general.
I understand the religious misgivings but there is probably loads of little bits and bobs that could be included.

I don't think you're necessarily bu but I think approaching it with an open mind, given how important it is to your dh to be (even if only to make his mum happy) could be helpful.

why? as others have said, the OP isn't interested. You go to a film to make your MIL happy, you don't enter into contracts you don't understand to make MIL happy.

@moonstruck from what others have said, an islamic marriage in the UK is legally recognized in other countries.

Muslim marriages are not recognised in the UK, but elsewhere they would be seen as evidence that any children were Muslims. A marriage breakdown were the children were taken abroad would be a nightmare. A low risk but not one worth taking for politeness.

Plus it clearly will not end there. The MiL is clearly being encouraged to ensure her DGC are raised as Muslims. It is something she missed out on with her own children. If OP is happy with that all well and good. If not it is easier to lay down ground rules now otherwise her marriage will end up being rows about keeping the MiL happy, with the children having to find a path between two cultures.

Big hug to you OP, this is a rubbish situation. Your MIL and DP are being v v unreasonable. Your mum's behaviour is typical MIL stuff but it is seriously concerning that DP is siding with her over this, not his pregnant fiancee: he should be your protection against pressure, not adding to it. Think very carefully if you are happy to commit to marriage unless he can promise to put your needs first and you are both agreed on how to bring up your child. You don't have to have a row, but a serious conversation about your right to have YOUR secular culture respected, at all times but particularly on your wedding day and particularly by your partner. I would contact your DP's mum, not through him, and explain that you really want to have a good relationship with her, and for her to have a good relationship with her grandchild, but you do not see how that can happen unless she accepts and respects that you are secular, not muslim and will be bringing your child up to reflect YOUR secular beliefs. Would she be prepared to go through an atheist ceremony, or genital mutilation, if that was part of your belief system 'to make you happy'? If you become Buddist will she take up meditation for you? Also if you are still considering an islamic ritual, for you or your child, then you should do massive research into the extent to which some parts of the world might consider you / your child muslim. This would have serious legal implications under islamic law for your rights if you / your child were to travel. Off the top of my head: sharia law applies the death penalty to muslims / those born into a muslim family who renounce Islam. A western muslim woman working in Dubai was whipped there this century for having unmarried sex - if she hadn't been technically a muslim, they wouldn't have cared (and in 2006 they changed the law to make clear that non-muslims cannot be flogged). Another muslim woman was whipped this year in Indonesia for same reason. If you are technically a muslim you can be arrested in many places for drinking alcohol even where it's legal for non-muslims. It doesn't matter if you don't believe in sharia law, it matters if sharia law believes in you... Stand up for yourself now or your marriage is going to suck. Good luck xxxxxx

If I was marrying a Chinese man I'd have an English wedding but with little touches that made it clear I was accepting of that culture with the flowers

there's culture (fun chinese characters everywhere! I also wouldn't care) then there's a religious and legal framework. Having chinese characters painted on the wall will have no legal implications anywhere.

Also, very few people are against chinese characters, but lots of people are against islamic marriages and what they symbolize. or christian marriages for that matter.

Muslim marriages are not recognised in the UK, but elsewhere they would be seen as evidence that any children were Muslims. A marriage breakdown were the children were taken abroad would be a nightmare. A low risk but not one worth taking for politeness.

there you go. An excellent reason to say no.

YANBU

I actually think it would be worse to say yes - a religious ceremony is supposed to mean something. If you don't practise a faith then it negates the entire process. What if you WERE religious but not hers, would you still be expected to have the ceremony she is asking for?

See op I see any genital mutilation as child abuse and potentially extremely dangerous for your child. FGM is of course unspeakably evil but then so is circumcision unless medically needed. Gemitals looking better is not a reason neither is religion.

Love for me the whole situation sounds very worrying and as others have said a slippery slope

Incidentally I would be terrified to leave my baby if a son with a woman who think is she will 'get someone' to circumcise!! Evil cow.

Watch yourself here op.