AIBU to say NO to an Islamic wedding?

[user1472724168]

Sorry about the USER 1 TRILLION AND 68..

I have created a new account as I cannot remember my account details for my main account. I am a regular user but did not want this linked to my main account.
I have been with DP for 5 years. We are expecting our first baby in December and we have been engaged for 1 year. We decided not to get married until we had a new larger property which is fine.
DP’s mum and dad are from different religions, his mum is a Muslim and she was shunned from her family when marrying her husband. My DP and his siblings were christened but raised with no religion. I was raised with no religion.
Once the older family members of DP’s mum passed away she slowly was accepted into the family again. She now practices Islam and fasts, celebrates EID etc.
When we first announced the pregnancy she mentioned us having an Islamic ceremony. Myself and DP both said no- end of conversation.

Last night his mum asks us both if we would do this ceremony, that she doesn’t ask anything of us and this will make her happy. I said no immediately whereas DP said no then when he was told it would be a 10 min thing and would not take much effort I could see he was thinking about it.

Once we got home he asked me and I said no and it’s not up for discussion. He asked me why not and I said no I am not religious, have no interest in Islam and I do not need a reason tbh. He said he wasn’t interested but it would make his mum happy. I said that I will make him happy if it was something he genuinely wanted but I am not in a relationship with his mum and do not need to make her happy.

We argued where he said that it means a lot to his mum, but nothing to me and would not affect my life in any way. He looked pissed off and said that I should not say I would do anything for him if that wasn’t true..
He is not religious at all and doesn’t care but from my point it will make his mum look more respectable in her community. AIBU to say no?

I am upset this morning and it is difficult to conversate with him about it as really I have no reason not to do it apart from I am not interested in Islam!!

I've lost count of the number of christian ceremonies that I have attended, where the subjects of the ceremonies haven't been near a church or a bible since the last time they attended a wedding.

I've been to three christenings this year where the parents wouldn't have known a bible if it was thrown in their faces by the pope.

People do religious shite they don't believe in all the time. I'm not saying they should, but the sanctimony on the thread would have you believe it has never happened anywhere before.

What did he say to his mother about circumcision? You've told us what you said.

He will be a parent. He could give parental permission.

I would certainly be viewing him differently after all this.

I would always turn it back on him now "why do you think her happiness is more important than mine?"

I might also be inclined to arrange for a Christian baptism to make the point absolutely clear that your child will not be raised Muslim. Since DH has been Christened himself that wouldn't be horrifically hypocritical to my mind.

Circumcision is legal, though (this is probably news to 95% of MNers) so doubt if anyone would bother flying someone in from abroad to do it when you could just go to a doctor or clinic.

Yes and it's not necessarily a good thing. Hundreds of boys are treated for circumcision related complications in the UK every year due to being performed by unqualified people.

This is an old article or but fairly informative

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/11101320/Surely-everyone-carrying-out-circumcisions-should-be-registered.html

Let's hope we see this barbaric practice banned in non clinical settings soon .

Remember there are about 9 countries on the planet where if you are muslim (as this child would be after the ceremony) and then you reject your faith the result is the death penalty so the consequences here are not the same as doing a C of E baptism to keep mother happy. If you do that and then the children lives on any country on the planet and gives up the C of E religion they will not be lawfully killed under local law as an apostate.

I would contact your DP's mum, not through him, and explain that you really want to have a good relationship with her, and for her to have a good relationship with her grandchild, but you do not see how that can happen unless she accepts and respects that you are secular, not muslim and will be bringing your child up to reflect YOUR secular beliefs

Boiing I fully agree with all you said, but not above, the very fact MIL is even insisting on the Muslim ceremony/blessing and mentioning circumcision for her future DGC is completely bonkers and unreasonable given the circumstances OP described already.
I guess OP can try to explain to her but I doubt she would get very far....this is why I suggest leaving the discussion to DP with his DM and to stand firm by his fiancée. Later once the topic is put to bed she could try and explain more, but to me it is a waste of energy when the key topic is getting the support from her DP who seems to think somehow this is not a big deal.
IMO AND experience with my once unreasonable MIL, things became even more unreasonable when I tried to "reason" with her over topics we disagreed upon (and some were pretty heavy like me working with young DC's, it is all a long time ago now, let alone the wedding that never happened with family present!) it was only when DH told his parents to drop it, and stood firm by my side that we could move forward...

You have a very sound and clear reason not to have a Islamic marriage; you are an atheist and that is more than enough of a reason. She wouldn't ask a practising Christian to do it so why a practising atheist? I strongly suspect you will need to make some profession of faith as part of the ceremony and agree to abide by Islamic rules on marriage (I have no experience but it seems odd if it didn't). Those are not things you could agree to.

In the UK, anyone is going to ask for parental consent forms

In the case of anyone who respects UK frameworks that's undoubtably true. Unfortunately there are some who don't feel that way, which is why plenty of undocumented - I might even say "casual" - circumcisions take place

And as PPs have said, what's to stop the DH signing the forms to keep his mother happy, without OP's agreement?

nneds to be both parents, especially after recent court case. I'm not saying that the OP IBU in the circumstances, but I do object to the characterization of the MIL as "evil" on very little basis, mainly conjecture, and the idea that she's going to abduct the child is pretty far fetched....

samG76
not evil per se, but cruel and self-centred YES otherwise why insist or even interfere in her DS & future DIL lives on something so very personal as their wedding day and wishes. Even mention circumcision knowing OP's feelings about it?

Anyone who persists like that would be quite capable of doing the unthinkable...maybe an extreme scenario but this is why OP & her DP must draw clear boundaries RIGHT NOW.

Can OP not warn her MiL that if she continues to interfere she will lose this family. She lost the last one by not following Islamic traditions, she might lose this by insisting on them. You are not from her cultural background and like her DH she cannot expect you to adapt to her.

However she can expect you to respect her values and allow your DC an understanding of them. As long as they are not imposed on you or them.

No way. If you do, the next thing will be a fight over your child's religion.

Your genuine reason is that you are not Muslim. You're the bride, not her. What right does she and your partner have to pressure you into having a religious ceremony for a religion you are not into?

It's the pressure they're putting on you that is a red flag.

Remember, op, this is YOUR wedding, not your partner's mother's wedding. Don't ever forget that no matter what they say. Now they're talking about your baby and pushing you to decisions that are really theirs?

No, Op, don't cave in. The manipulation will only get worse. I think what repulses me is that the mother wants to make herself look good in her community, she is not concerned at all about what you want for your own wedding.

This is a serious issue. She is meddling and she's got her son to carry out her meddling and bringing even more pressure on you.

Your partner is marrying you. That makes you the most important woman in his life, his mother is important, but you are now the first priority in his life. This putting his mother above you will not work out well. You can't make him stop siding with his mother...I would consider not marrying him, seriously.

An imam won't marry you if neither of you is Muslim. This is the oddest thing I've ever read.

And Islamic marriage consists of a very short sermon in Arabic (do either of you speak it?), the marriage is a contract you put in what your conditions of marriage are the imam asks if you each agree to the marriage based on the terms of the contract and its witnessed by two people.

The main thing is, the imam asks if you're both Muslims, if you both marry as Muslims. You aren't it's the strangest thing I've ever heard, like if my mother in law wanted me to marry DP in a church I'm very sure the priest and church would not marry us neither of us being remotely Christian.

An Islamic marriage btw is like having a pre nuptial agreement, you set the terms of marriage and divorce in it.

I'm also not sure why laws and events abroad and the risk of child abduction is being mentioned, when there's no hint of anyone involved being non-British nationals.

All the people suggesting op shouldn't have an Islamic marriage because it would mean her child is Muslim in case of a divorce. A child of any type of marriage ceremony will be considered as the religion of its father islamically anyway.

A lot of hysteria in this thread, op's DP has parents of two different faiths and is not of any religious affiliation, he just sounds like he's wanting to keep his mother happy like a lot of men with non Muslim mothers also try and do on MN and in RL.

fuzzy, OPs OH is not Muslim. Just the MiL.

Sorry, misread your previous post.

I am not sure it is hysteria, but the danger that in the event of a difficult divorce a husband could go overseas clutching a certificate confirming an Islamic wedding and essentially put any children beyond reach, is a small risk, but one not worth taking if there is no reason to.

More importantly is that by agreeing to an Islamic ceremony the MiL, the Iman and others within the community may consider any children Muslims and thus continue the pressure. Given she has not chosen to convert , I assume this is not what OP wants.

I wonder what her parents think. Her mother might be furious about the pressure from the in-laws, if she has not been given any say in any ceremony.

YANBU! Don't do it. I've found it's important not to be too nice (soft) in life and in your marriage, trying to please everyone doesn't work and isn't sustainable. Trust your own instincts and don't be persuaded. Tell him the façade of this ceremony may be enough for his mother but the fact that it wouldn't be genuine or heartfelt for either of you would make it utterly abhorrent to you on your wedding day. If that isn't reason enough for him, I'd be questioning why my fiancé isn't taking my views more seriously. Good luck.

YANBU

That you aren't muslim is reason enough.

Muslim ceremonies are for practising Muslims. She's going to try and dictate everything if you allow this.

By the way it sounds like you are not married under English / civil law? Is that right?

Do be aware that unlike Christian marriages in the UK and Jewish ones if you only marry under Islamic law you do not have a civil ceremony at the same time which means you and your spouse have none of the legal protections English law gives to those married in the eyes of the state so do consider if you might marry say in a country house or elsewhere or town hall because of legal protections given by that.

Need; I didn't think from OP that the DP was anything other than British. He could very well use a civil marriage certificate to remove his children from the uk using that scenario. if OP fears her DP will kidnap their child I'd suggest she doesn't marry him at all and get a prohibited steps order preventing him from removing the child from the country.

The only thing an Islamic marriage does is set out the terms of the marriage & divorce OP can specify anything she wants in it (it's not legally binding, unless a court upholds in the event of a divorce). It can contain religious elements or not, it can be conducted by an imam or anyone who knows how Islamic marriages should be conducted. And lasts five minutes (with the Islamic sermon if added).

I think it's pointless if the OP and her DP aren't Muslim and that's all the argument she needs, surely whoever conducts the marriage will ask if both bride and groom are Muslim if not they won't conduct the ceremony. Won't it be more embarrassing for MIL if both B&G tell the officiant they aren't Muslim?

I'm very sure the priest and church would not marry us neither of us being remotely Christian

I wouldn't be too sure, Fuzzy; some christian leaders are prepared to be very flexible, on the "encourage them into the church" ticket. This would no doubt include the CofE vicar who carried out a colleague's fourth wedding

I'm afraid that, in OP's position, I'd be thinking very carefully about whether a marriage to this man is entirely wise ...

Really Puzzled , it feels disrespectful to think a religious person would do that.

TBH I would do it. It's not a big deal to you but it is to her (and your DP , even if not for the same reason). It doesn't have to be a slippery slope - stand your ground when it's something you boy feel passionate about. Pick your battles.

I completely agree, Fuzzy - goodness knows how the vicar justified it to his superiors (if they even asked, of course). I thought the CofE disallowed this, and while I imagine there may be some flexibility for a second marriage it seemed a bit much for a fourth

Sorry, though; I shouldn't derail ...