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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to say NO to an Islamic wedding?

440 replies

user1472724168 · 01/09/2016 11:21

Sorry about the USER 1 TRILLION AND 68..

I have created a new account as I cannot remember my account details for my main account. I am a regular user but did not want this linked to my main account.
I have been with DP for 5 years. We are expecting our first baby in December and we have been engaged for 1 year. We decided not to get married until we had a new larger property which is fine.
DP’s mum and dad are from different religions, his mum is a Muslim and she was shunned from her family when marrying her husband. My DP and his siblings were christened but raised with no religion. I was raised with no religion.
Once the older family members of DP’s mum passed away she slowly was accepted into the family again. She now practices Islam and fasts, celebrates EID etc.
When we first announced the pregnancy she mentioned us having an Islamic ceremony. Myself and DP both said no- end of conversation.

Last night his mum asks us both if we would do this ceremony, that she doesn’t ask anything of us and this will make her happy. I said no immediately whereas DP said no then when he was told it would be a 10 min thing and would not take much effort I could see he was thinking about it.

Once we got home he asked me and I said no and it’s not up for discussion. He asked me why not and I said no I am not religious, have no interest in Islam and I do not need a reason tbh. He said he wasn’t interested but it would make his mum happy. I said that I will make him happy if it was something he genuinely wanted but I am not in a relationship with his mum and do not need to make her happy.

We argued where he said that it means a lot to his mum, but nothing to me and would not affect my life in any way. He looked pissed off and said that I should not say I would do anything for him if that wasn’t true..
He is not religious at all and doesn’t care but from my point it will make his mum look more respectable in her community. AIBU to say no?

I am upset this morning and it is difficult to conversate with him about it as really I have no reason not to do it apart from I am not interested in Islam!!

OP posts:
fuzzywuzzy · 02/09/2016 10:17

There aren't any vows, you just accept eachother in marriage based on the terms of your marriage contract, which you draw up yourself.

I find the whole premise ridiculous, nobody is actually a Muslim in this scenario, apart from the MIL who is not the one getting married and doesn't sound like she practices the religion anyway.

Spaghettidog · 02/09/2016 10:22

I'm amused at the naive assumption that circumcision in the UK is only ever carried out in a medical setting with consent forms signed by both parents Grin. It's actually quite common for young boys to be 'cut' by Uncle Knobchopper down the road who's been doing it for years. Prosecutions are happening for botched, illegal circumcisions but when the victim has the good fortune to not bleed to death or end up with a nasty sepsis infection, it goes under the radar. So it continues.

It is very possible for a child in the UK to be circumcised without one or both of hos parents knowing.

Absolutely to this.

Mind you, as others have said, here we all are falling into the same trap as the OP and producing reasons, albeit perfectly valid ones, why she shouldn't agree to a nikkah. When the fact that she doesn't want to should be enough for all concerned, and the fact that she's trying to find reasons other than this to appease her partner and his mother is alarming.

Tealedidallthewalking · 02/09/2016 11:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2016 12:28

And as for circumcision they're not done by imams at home, they're performed in clinics as day surgery by qualified doctors

So please could I ask how you feel about the several PPs who've mentioned their experience of home circumcision happening, sometimes having picked up the pieces afterwards?

BTW you're quite right that (despite efforts to change this) Shariah has no legal validity in the UK. However it certainly has a lot of power among some communities, which might be considered regrettable in view of several things it mandates, even if the worst ones are not currently enacted

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 02/09/2016 12:29

Teale
Wrong thread?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2016 12:35

Puzzle was it maybe just a blessing??

Unfortunately no; I didn't feel able to attend, but other workmates did and I can assure you it was a full marriage service Sad

Perhaps it's not surprising that the bride has since left her fourth husband too ...

fuzzywuzzy · 02/09/2016 12:38

Puzzled, I don't believe there are swathes of babies who have had imams circumcise them, it's unheard of actually I'm Muslim all the men in our family are circumcised all done by qualified doctors. Every Imam I know of would refuse and point the parent to a doctor, an Imam is there for spiritual guidance.

And actually I and my Muslim family and friends absolutely use Islamic edict to divorce and marry. We are aware that it is no legally binding in British law, and that is a personal choice for those who knowingly do not get married legally, there's nothing wrong with cohabiting in British law.

BTW where is the OP, I hope she's ok,

samG76 · 02/09/2016 12:45

Puzzled - our DS's were done at home by a doctor. It's standard in the Jewish community.

The question was what imams have to do with it. As I understand it, (and I'm obviously not a Muslim) although compulsory it is not a religious rite in most strands of Islam, so could be done at a clinic or by a doctor. I suspect a lot of people on this thread, which as is typical for MN shows gross ignorance and assumptions about other cultures, are confusing the role of an imam with a mohel in Judaism, which is a religious position.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2016 12:49

I'm Muslim all the men in our family are circumcised all done by qualified doctors. Every Imam I know of would refuse and point the parent to a doctor

Genuinely pleased to hear it, Fuzzy - if only it was the same for everyone Smile

Of course there's no problem with cohabitation, or in theory with using a different system, as long as active choice is involved for everyone; like so many, however, it's possible hidden coercion which worries me

And yes, I was also wondering where OP had gone and hoping she's okay ...

Buzzardbird · 02/09/2016 12:49

Think Teale was looking for the thread that was deleted late last night Chaz

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2016 12:59

The question was what imams have to do with it

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I thought it had more to do with imams advocating the practice, rather than actually carrying it out?

In some cases the same could even be said for female mutilation, but maybe it's better not to go there ... as I said, I don't want to derail

justasecond · 02/09/2016 13:25

well, well, well another thread with muslim in the title that has bought out mass hysteria. I would be very interested to see proof of these botched circumcisions done by "uncle knobchoppers". Are there any statistics to back up this claim? I am muslim and never in all my days have I heard of an imam or any other unqualified medical person performing circumcisions. In my family, inc my ds it is always a doctor.
Back to the thread I find it all rather absurd. As fuzzy says no one is muslim so a nikkah in this context is meaningless. Seems like the op's mil to be is trying to impress her family using her ds who was not even bought up in the faith.

Atenco · 02/09/2016 13:33

I think people are getting caught up in the fact that the present issue is a MUSLIM marriage ceremony. Personally I think the problem is with the fiancé's relationship with his mother, where the mother's wishes override his fiancée's wishes.

chilipepper20 · 02/09/2016 13:50

I think people are getting caught up in the fact that the present issue is a MUSLIM marriage ceremony.

of course. it's a muslim marriage, and the OP (and many people here) do not understand the ramifications of it. From reading the thread, it appears that there would be legal ramifications in possibly other countries, but not here. That may be fine for the OP, but maybe not.

The point, however, is that the MIL is asking someone else to sign (either figuratively or literally) a contract which the OP doesn't understand and may not benefit her. Why would anyone do that? As far as I know, and I am not a lawyer in the UK, it is a bad idea to engage in contracts that you don't understand just to make someone feel good.

That's not a comment on the husband-to-be. Every (well, perhaps most) marriage starts out happy. But no one in their right mind should start a marriage with a contract that may put them at a disadvantage, because, unfortunately, the marriage might fail like the many other marriages that start of happy and fail.

DistanceCall · 02/09/2016 14:00

I agree with Teale.

fuzzywuzzy · 02/09/2016 14:05

Chilli the marriage contract should be drawn up by the bride, the groom accepts it or not. She specifies a bride gift and anything else she wants in it.

in my case ex's family came over and my family discussed our stipulations with them to ensure that what we asked wouldn't be a hardship for them.

I don't think any of it matters really. The main thing is op doesn't want to do it. She shouldn't have to. It's in neither here or her DP's beliefs.

Dowser · 02/09/2016 14:09

The two Islamic weddings I went to saw the husband with the men and the bride with the women.
They were married apart from one another.
You wouldn't want that would you.

Haven't rft so apologies if this has been discussed.

Quickqu · 02/09/2016 14:18

Haven't RTFT but don't do it. I wouldn't.

hotdiggedy · 02/09/2016 14:20

The Op doesnt seem to have returned but anyway..

RunningLulu, I am interested to hear that your brother was able to marry a Muslim girl. Was that in the Uk? As far as I know there is only one man in England prepared to carry out such a marriage. Quite well known for his interesting interpretations on Islam!

As for the poster who decided (on purpose perhaps?) to bring in the whole burkini issue and the other poster agreeing. Well, it makes me sad to hear that you don't think women should be able to cover up on the beach if hey should so wish.

WappersReturns · 02/09/2016 14:57

justasecond if you could direct me to the part of my post where I mention Islam. At all. That would be awesome. Thanks.

Italiangreyhound · 02/09/2016 15:22

Puzzle curiouser and curiouser. My friend is a vicar (I know tons of vicars!) and he told m they can only do it in very exceptional circumstances. Maybe she has some (exceptional circumstances!).

fuzzy I am no expert on Islam but I do know that it is practiced by people from many, many various cultures (including our own) and so it is quite probably that the way it is expressed by someone from Somalia, or Saudi Arabia, or Bosnia or the UK, etc etc. Yes, I'd noticed OP not been around. Hope she is OK.

justasecond (excuse the pun) but cock ups can happen in hospitals and medical facilities or with doctors too. I think for those of us who do not approve of circumcision it is an unnecessary procedure so the risks run are unnecessarily.

I guess as a Christian I am lucky that this is not something that is required or even suggested within my faith. If it were I think I would look to the past and see it as something to leave in the past and not to continue.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mohammed-siddiqui-doctor-struck-after-5235888

Tealedidallthewalking · 02/09/2016 15:22

I'm very sorry folks. I posted a comment about the burkini / France issue, on this, the wrong thread - obviously... Apologies for the mix up...

Italiangreyhound · 02/09/2016 15:30

PS I should add if adult males wish to have circumcision performed on them, that is up to them, but tiny babies, young children or boys in puberty, no, adults only IMHO.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/09/2016 15:31

Useful article here from the Guardian. Of course this was from 2010, so no doubt someone will insist that's ancient history and absolutely wouldn't happen now Hmm

www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jul/11/doctors-urge-circumcision-on-nhs

Italiangreyhound · 02/09/2016 15:31

Thought as much, Teal.

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