AIBU to say NO to an Islamic wedding?

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Sorry about the USER 1 TRILLION AND 68..

I have created a new account as I cannot remember my account details for my main account. I am a regular user but did not want this linked to my main account.
I have been with DP for 5 years. We are expecting our first baby in December and we have been engaged for 1 year. We decided not to get married until we had a new larger property which is fine.
DP’s mum and dad are from different religions, his mum is a Muslim and she was shunned from her family when marrying her husband. My DP and his siblings were christened but raised with no religion. I was raised with no religion.
Once the older family members of DP’s mum passed away she slowly was accepted into the family again. She now practices Islam and fasts, celebrates EID etc.
When we first announced the pregnancy she mentioned us having an Islamic ceremony. Myself and DP both said no- end of conversation.

Last night his mum asks us both if we would do this ceremony, that she doesn’t ask anything of us and this will make her happy. I said no immediately whereas DP said no then when he was told it would be a 10 min thing and would not take much effort I could see he was thinking about it.

Once we got home he asked me and I said no and it’s not up for discussion. He asked me why not and I said no I am not religious, have no interest in Islam and I do not need a reason tbh. He said he wasn’t interested but it would make his mum happy. I said that I will make him happy if it was something he genuinely wanted but I am not in a relationship with his mum and do not need to make her happy.

We argued where he said that it means a lot to his mum, but nothing to me and would not affect my life in any way. He looked pissed off and said that I should not say I would do anything for him if that wasn’t true..
He is not religious at all and doesn’t care but from my point it will make his mum look more respectable in her community. AIBU to say no?

I am upset this morning and it is difficult to conversate with him about it as really I have no reason not to do it apart from I am not interested in Islam!!

"but to minimize all Muslim marriages...." I don't think anyone is doing this. In fact rather the opposite, posters are asking what is the significance of this action/ceremony etc.

We are only really 'discussing' what it means/might mean (not whether she should do it) because overwhelming people have said if the OP does not wish to do it, don't do it, whatever the ceremony means!

Tell him and her to fuck off (well actually put it in nicer words than that) it's not going to happen...your marrying your husband not his sodding mother

an islamic marriage is not worth much more than the paper its written on, its purely symbolic

i understand what you meant by this given the rest of the post, but i have to say that sentence comes across as so rude, ignorant and offensive. For those who understand it's implications it is worth MORE than the paper it's written on.

OP, i think your mil is asking for this because she still has a need to feel truly 'accepted' in the fold and thinks this will 'prove' to them that she is 'worthy' of it. If that's true then it's her issue to deal with - it isn't right to project that onto you two.

An islamic marriage empowers the woman in some ways but it also disempowers her in others. It may not hold sway in a UK court but it will certainly have plenty of influence on your relationship and marriage as others-like mil-will treat you and your dc according to their interpretation of islam and islamic law.

I cannot believe she is wanting you both to make a complete farce of your wedding and marriage - she's unhinged.

God this mother is mental. I suppose she will be wanting you to wear a Burka next.. And why the f* is her son on her side. Mummies boy, divorce is in the wind.

YANBU!

Tell him & her, that you are not Muslim, he is not Muslim & out of respect for the religion itself, its believers & especially the IMAN asked to perform a ceremony that is effectively a lie, you cannot & will not go through with it as you feel it makes a mockery both of there beliefs & your own disbeliefs

Their

Shariah council has no legal recognition. An Islamic marriage contract is not enforceable in this country.

And anyone living as a married couple with only an Islamic marriage contract is no different legally than a couple who choose to cohabit.

I'm not sure why there's concerns over sharia courts, they don't have any legal clout here. The Shariah council is voluntary, you can go there and request an annulment of your Islamic marriage which you'd do if you were Muslim and wanted to divorce your husband because an English court wouldn't do it as you're not legally married. And you only do that if you were Muslim and didn't want to remain religiously married to your husband as you believe then that you are married and can't re-marry, no such problem to someone who's not Muslim and doesn't believe there's anything in the ceremony, they're free to walk away anytime they like.

And as for circumcision they're not done by imams at home, they're performed in clinics as day surgery by qualified doctors. there's no ceremony involving circumcising a boy, newborn baby's have their head shaved at seven days old and the weight of the hair in silver is given in alms, boys are circumcised and both male and female children have a goats sacrificed for them and the meat distributed to the poor/ big barbecue party to celebrate the birth of the child.

If op is worried about her fiancé, who isn't Muslim, suddenly wanting to devoutly adhere to the tenets of Islam against her wishes, she really should not marry him at all.

Shariah council has no legal recognition.
Agreed, unfortunately it has social recognition. So if you undergo some sort of sharia marriage and renege on it later... You just dont know what the reaction will be from other extremist Islamist's.

Yes, maths' point is a good one. Also very unlikely but it is not impossbile that if the family had publicity over something in the next 10 years local papers might interview the mother, the press might get hold of "married in a muslim ceremony in 2016 etc etc" and that might not be publicity an atheist wants.

I am more concerned legally thought about the fact this couple may not be married in civil law int he UK and if they understand the implications of that legally. I had a client who did not tell his wife that the fact they were only married under their faith in the UK meant she was not his wife (he needed advice on partnership assets in a business and we just happened to touch on rights if they split up - I don't do family law particularly but that wife and no doubt plenty of others was unaware under English law as she was only religiously married (and she was a first "wife") would be a very different position if they split up than if they had been married under the eyes of the civil law.

I personally think circumcision is something that should be offered as a paid service on the NHS

The NHS should absolutely not be offering unnecessary medical procedures, for free OR for cash. Pieces of a baby's body should only be sliced off him if there is a damn compelling medical reason.

Mummies boy, divorce is in the wind.

Not if there is no marriage to be divorced from, and a Muslim ceremony in the UK is usually not a valid marriage at all.

I sometimes see (professionally) reports by SWs which refer to the parties having "had a cultural marriage" because the SW does not want to say that that the ceremony was legally meaningless; and it grinds my gears.

Oh honey I feel for you. I recieved allsorts of pressured on my in laws when I was pregnant to the point when I'd had him I was practically hiding in my house from them with curtains drawn and door locked! I then just stood up to them and life is much better because of it. Luckily my DH is/was very supportive at the time.
For your situation I completely agree with others that it's hypocritical to conduct a ceremony that neither of you agree with. What's the point? A million pounds would make many people happy doesn't mean they get it. What should make his mum happy is that his son and daughter in law are happy and healthy and have a new baby on the way to enjoy and love. If it's a 10 min thing in her house surely that's entirely pointless and who would know anyway? Is it just to look better in the eyes of her family? Maybe try reminding her how she went against religion and her family's views for love. She's a hypocrite if she's asking you to go against ur views just to please her. Stand ur ground, your DP is marrying YOU and should do what you are BOTH happy with. You do have a genuine reason anyway..... You're not a Muslim!

I'm amused at the naive assumption that circumcision in the UK is only ever carried out in a medical setting with consent forms signed by both parents
It's actually quite common for young boys to be 'cut' by Uncle Knobchopper down the road who's been doing it for years.
Prosecutions are happening for botched, illegal circumcisions but when the victim has the good fortune to not bleed to death or end up with a nasty sepsis infection, it goes under the radar. So it continues.

It is very possible for a child in the UK to be circumcised without one or both of hos parents knowing.

italiangreyhound re your comment...

...She should refuse, as she wants to refuse...

I agree. Looking for excuses to wiggle out of it is a bad precedent. The OPs wish to not do it is enough. (I consider myself told )

Wishing you well OP, I hope your fiancé sees the light!

Hotdigeddy - re circumcision - Oh right. Hah. I would probably just start pulling funny faces every time she mentions such things then Op.

Yes that's well known to stop a manipulative MIL in their tracks.

OP - as others have said, FGS don't marry this guy until you have answers to all the questions raised.

It might not have legal recognition in this country, but it will do in other countries. You might want to check out the legal ramifications as far as that is concerned OP. For example, would it mean that if you split your DP could take DS to another country which recognised the marriage and as a result would see DS as his property and therefore not think you have a right to have him returned to you. It could also affect your rights if travelling or living in Islamic countries.

I apologise if I'm repeating something already said but I understood you could not have a Muslim marriage without the female 'non-muslim' converting. My DH is Muslim, I am not, MIL was not happy that we didn't have a religious marriage ceremony but accepted that as I was not willing to convert that it could not happen.

Just say no and I would make it clear to dh if he utters anything about Islam again there will be no wedding

as in some communities & families, people are reluctant to go through official channels due to the contentiousness of having it done, and the fear of being judged

Judged by whom? You do seem to be taking a patronizing and eurocentric attitude. Do you seriously think that most Muslim (or Jewish) families are ashamed of carrying it out. Noone I know who has had it done has considered it contentious. In any case, there are clinics where you can have it done for a couple of hundred pounds, and presumably you would be unlikely to be judged there because that it what they do.

The NHS should absolutely not be offering unnecessary medical procedures, for free OR for cash. Pieces of a baby's body should only be sliced off him if there is a damn compelling medical reason.

I was offered exactly this when my DS was born. I'm mixed race married (married to a white man) and the midwife asked if i wanted to go ahead with the procedure for 'cultural reasons'. I declined on the basis that me and my children are brought up without religion.

The Shariah council doesn't keep records of divorces for longer than two years. They don't conduct marriages either, unless you ask them to. An Islamic marriage can be conducted by anyone with knowledge of how one works, and it isn't necessarily a written contract either.

An Islamic divorce is just your word for it that you're divorced, there's no paper involved unless you ask a mosque/shariah council to certify your divorce.
I have an Islamic marriage (and divorce) from ex, no paper divorce on the matter, I was legally married so I have a paper trail of a legal divorce from ex.

I really think the OP's DP going to live in an Islamic country is a red herring, unless he is a national of an Islamic country, which it does not sound like he is from the info OP has given, he cannot take his child and move to one in the event of a divorce, Islamic countries have pretty closed immigration policies, a non national is not going to get residency in an Islamic country especially not if he's a fugitive (which he would be for kidnapping a child).

I think if OP feels her DP will not support her and constantly appease MIL instead, she should not marry her DP.

Absolutely no. It has no meaning to you and doesn't sit well with you. I am one who feels its hugely hypocritical to have any kind of religious ceremony if you do not believe in the god you are making vows to.

We had the choice of 3 beautiful churches to get married in. We chose the registry office because neither of us went to church at that point. Our current church will NOT marry anyone who isn't a regular church goer and believer.

I also agree that the mother now feels like she has to atone for her past "errors" by getting her son to do "the right thing" you should not have to do this. Her guilt, her issue.

I'd say no too.

And I'd think twice about continuing in the relationship at all if he continues to prioritise his mother's wishes over yours.

I married a Catholic atheist (brought up Catholic but no longer believes in any of it) - when we got married, and I suggested a church wedding (I am a Methodist) he refused unless it was in a Catholic church. I wasn't going to go through the hoops that entailed, especially not lying to a priest that I would bring up any children of the marriage as Catholics (I wouldn't). So we got married in a Registry Office instead.

I would not ever go through a religious ceremony outside of my own beliefs just to appease someone else, especially when the other person isn't even a believer themselves!

Also Islamic weddings have a big focus on having lots of babies and bringing them up Muslim. Google it and read up. I really can't see how it's appropriate. If you do it you may forever have her saying "in your vows"

This is all very interesting, but if we step away from the intricacies of Islam for a moment, this MiL is clearly a piece of work. She's fallen out with one family, supposedly because of religious differences and having married into Christianity for convenience or whatever, she sees no big deal in asking someone else to adopt her own warped moral stance. Religion per se means nothing to her, she uses it to get social acceptance, swaps one for another depending on the way the social wind is blowing.

OP, get your DP and his DM to understand that while you are not religious yourself, unlike them you are sufficiently respectful of religion to not want to co-opt it for social reasons - and that includes mutilating circumcising your child.