To wish Theresa May would just say sod it we're staying in the EU because ...

[Topanga1]

It's her job to act in the best interest of our country.

We NEED access to the single market and won't get that without free movement of people.

The peace process in N Ireland will be in jeopardy if we erect a border between them and Ireland. It's too high a price to pay.

The referendum was advisory so PM May and the majority of MPs who were pro-remain need to say 'thanks for the advice but we can't deliver what you wanted without wrecking our country so we're staying'

Love In Tokyo; I think the media was half and half, wasn't it? If I remember correctly the newspapers varied a great deal, even weekday and sunday editions of the same newspaper gave different declarations.

Did you answer my question about you finding a job equal to your 'good one' here in Europe?

You are not going to change your mind and nor am I, but you need to cheer up a bit and accept the decision. We will carry on the best we can, we have left the EU, an enormously flawed organisation, and voted for local politics and democracy. I understand for conformists it is hard to venture into the unknown but let's see what happens.

Sorry, I am aware we haven't left yet!

Jonso, I already have a good career here. I'm not likely to find a job as good as the one I currently have if I move to his country. I might, but it's unlikely.

Before Brexit it looked like he had quite a good chance of finding something decent here. That is now looking a lot less likely. So yes, this result may well have screwed things up for us quite considerably as a couple, and I'm not inclined to feel that cheerful about it.

We haven't yet left the EU, and how this will actually play out in reality remains to be seen. Yes it is flawed, but I don't think it's any more flawed than the alternative. I have yet to see a convincing, credible plan which will deliver us a better outcome than we would have by staying. We already have a better deal than any of the other member states. Full membership, no euro, no Schengen. We managed to negotiate those opt-outs (and the rebate) because we were a powerful, important member state and they needed us to play ball. Now we have stuck two fingers up at them and decided we're leaving anyway, they have no more need to do us any favours. Quite the reverse.

It's so heartening how particular remain voters now seem to be fervently hoping for the UK to be taught a lesson for wanting to leave a union it never elected to be in in its present form.
It's not sticking two fingers up to anyone, it's electing to leave an organisation which is seen as arrogant and undemocratic. Lots of other countries within the EU would do the same if given the chance. Support for the EU amongst the French, Danish, Greek and Austrian population is at an all time low.
Which should suggest to you that the EU's lack of transparency is a big issue for everyone. The EU could have avoided this by consulting people more before forging ahead with the whole superstate vision that only the elite shared.
Yes, we will probably have a period of austerity, which will provide people such as yourself to smack their lips and screech 'I told you so!' but we'll just have to live with that.

Personally, I think you and your boyfriend's decision is a bit rash and illogical. I think you having to move away from your present hard earned career to find a job in France to prove a point is a bit of a harsh thing for you boyfriend to ask of you, especially as there is such a big French community here that are on the whole succeeding well in their professions.

It reminds me so much of the Labour MP's who want to oust the democratically elected leader of the party at all costs. An absolute refusal to accept the decision of the people.

The alternative is that he comes here and works in a bar, because his industry is now in a recruitment freeze, particularly not interested in hiring EU nationals in the UK in the current climate, and may end up moving out of the UK in the end anyway (most likely to his country, ironically). That would be a big thing to ask of him as well, would it not?

And you know what? Sometimes the democratic decision of the people is stupid and illogical and harmful. This is one of those times.

What industry is he in? You may be doing the same in France- who earns more?

Those of you who are saying we shouldn't have had a referendum, why? A referendum is the best form of direct democracy; something which we should all cherish and protect

I don't think many people understand this though.

Direct democracy is a terrible idea. Why would you put important economic and political decisions in the hands of people who don't have the necessary knowledge to make an informed decision?

I could not disagree more. The decisions of politicians have affected the lives of millions of ordinary people who have had no say in those decisions.

Giving those people a referendum - was the right thing to do in a democracy.

Ie, Ok we had a vote back in the 70's - since then - a number of new directives has come through, how do you all feel about them, and how do you feel about the current form of the EU - because of course its changed immeasurably since that initial vote.

And, the people responded - we don't like it and we want out.

jonso

YY, its madness utter madness. Political freedom is vital.

Jonso, the point is, we are now in a difficult position either way. Brexit hasn't even happened yet and already it has closed off opportunities for both of us and made it harder for us to build a life together. I could understand it if I thought that any of the people who voted for this are going to see any tangible benefit, but they won't. Of course they won't.

Justgivemeamo, quite a lot of the people who decided they wanted out did so because they thought it would mean an extra £350m a week for the NHS or because they thought it would stop immigration. Neither of those things were true. Quite a lot of them did it as a protest vote, or because everyone else they knew was doing it. Quite a lot of them were Googling "What is the EU?" in the early hours of June 24th.

I'm sorry, but how is that an appropriate method of making the biggest constitutional change in our lifetimes, with profound economic and political consequences? A straightforward, yes/no decision, won by a very slim majority of people, many of whom clearly don't know their arse from their elbow. The whole thing was an utter disgrace to democracy.

Quite a lot of them did it as a protest vote, or because everyone else they knew was doing it. Quite a lot of them were Googling "What is the EU?" in the early hours of June 24th.

Sorry to repeat myself from the other thread but this has been debunked. There were less than a thousand such "what is the EU?" searches.

Also, as we do like facts not supposition in our EU discussions, don't we, we have no way of knowing if the people who googled this voted leave, remain or not at all, or were even eligible to vote (teenagers for example).

True, but my experience of trying to engage with leave voters before the referendum made it very clear that 99% of them didn't have a clue what they were talking about and were not remotely interested in informing themselves. Everyone I know who did actually make an effort to inform themselves properly voted remain.

I wouldn't mind the Brexiters being all " look what you've done" if any of them knew what the EU was actually up to.
No one has/ had any clue about their MEP, what they do, what topics were up for debate or what say we had in them. The benefits of the EU are free trade and not having to go to war with our Eurpean neighbours as we are prone to doing. I'm sure we can negotiate one of them if only because they import to us more than we export to them.

Actually, it's quite a few weeks since the referendum and I know a lot of people had quite a shock at the result, but I am really starting to find this continuing to denigrate the intelligence of leave voters rather offensive. So many "don't know their arse from their elbow"? Where I live, the leave vote was 64% with a turn out of 74% which I calculate (using both my brain cells) to be 47% of the population. I expect where you live Love there was a lower leave vote (if not, lets just assume that for the sake of my argument). So two things: one: do you really believe that people where I live are more stupid than people where you (or our hypothetical remain voter in a low leave vote area) live? And two : it's strange how we manage to run hospitals, companies, research institutes and all the rest here, given we're so lacking in the intellect department.

I suspect that most people who are still banging on about leave voters being less educated etc etc have (i) not read the Ashcroft polls and/or (ii) don't have a very good grasp of statistics. One interesting number from Ashcroft, 43% of AB votes were for leave. Who would have thought it?- and they are managing to do professional skilled jobs too.

I really think people need to move on from insulting other people's intelligence, and try to understand that people have different values and that theirs are just as valid as yours.

It's statistically quite possible for that 47% of the population who voted leave where you live to have below average intelligence, WrongTrouser.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist...)

And no, not all opinions are equally valid. Some are completely bonkers.

Thanks Wrong Trousers you have said everything i wanted to say.

It is tiring though isn't it - this crystal ball pretense knowledge of who voted leave and why!

Lovein - Your right, I heard people voting remain because they were worried about their holiday costs or because they thought their DC could never ever travel or work in the EU ever again

But I would never tarr every remain voter with the same brush I am sure many more voted for varied and sensible reasons.

I have yet to hear from a single leave voter who can tell me how their life is realistically going to improve as a result of Brexit. But I know many people whose lives either have been or are very likely to be harmed.

Where's the benefit?

but my experience of trying to engage with leave voters before the referendum made it very clear that 99% of them didn't have a clue what they were talking about and were not remotely interested in informing themselves

going from your posts had you tried to engage with me, my response may have been " ogg ogg" and I feel no matter what any leave voter had said - some posters would have only heard "ogg ogg".
I suspect they get their listening skills from the same place the Labour party seems to nowadays

I just want to understand what benefits you think Brexit will bring.

Love in I could give you a detailed list but as I said - it would be transmuted into " ogg ogg" .

Leave voters I have spoken to and know range from barely educated but very bright people who know whats going on, to very educated Oxbridge people who are bright and know whats going on.

I have met the same on the remain side, with all the variations in between and silly voting reasons from both sides as well.

But chatting a leave friend he agreed leave voters seem to have a healthier respect for others opinions and their right to them and the vote, which ties in with everything else leaving the EU is about.

Some remainers on the other hand seem to feel the proles shouldnt have the right to vote and shouldnt have a say and that also ties in with the lack of democracy and everything else - on the remain side.

Love in I could give you a detailed list but as I said - it would be transmuted into " ogg ogg"

Nicely swerved.

I just want to understand what benefits you think Brexit will bring

Just as the pros and cons for remain are all out there in all media etc so are the pros and cons for leave.

I suspect your issue may be putting yourself in someone elses shoes to understand those reasons and I cant help you with that aspect

Given that you people have caused me, my family, many of my friends and millions of other people I don't know an enormous amount of heartache and worry, surely it's only reasonable for us to want to know what benefits we can expect in return? Otherwise, what on earth is the point of this fuckwittery?