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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wish Theresa May would just say sod it we're staying in the EU because ...

255 replies

Topanga1 · 29/08/2016 09:59

It's her job to act in the best interest of our country.

We NEED access to the single market and won't get that without free movement of people.

The peace process in N Ireland will be in jeopardy if we erect a border between them and Ireland. It's too high a price to pay.

The referendum was advisory so PM May and the majority of MPs who were pro-remain need to say 'thanks for the advice but we can't deliver what you wanted without wrecking our country so we're staying'

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 29/08/2016 17:37

happy I have no issue with a democratic vote based on a perceived outcome.

What we appear to have is vote based on unicorns and rainbows with no one prepared to stand up and dispute that perception?

hackmum · 29/08/2016 18:52

I think you have to obey the democratic mandate. However, everything I've read about Brexit suggests it's going to be enormously complicated and difficult to achieve and may not even be achievable because we are so tangled up in the EU. I think May couldn't have thought of a worse punishment for David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox if she'd tried.

On the basis that you have to take your pleasures where you can find them, I look forward to watching the three of them screw it all up.

LoveInTokyo · 29/08/2016 19:03

hackmum, that's definitely my silver lining in all of this. Smile

gets popcorn

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 29/08/2016 19:08

It's said to be complicated but how do they know this when no one has ever evoked it in the first place!

I hope TM just gets on with it.

LoveInTokyo · 29/08/2016 19:19

MrsItsNoworNotatAll

I'm currently in the process of writing a 15,000 word paper about how complicated it all is, which you are welcome to read if you are struggling with insomnia would like to.

youarenotkiddingme · 29/08/2016 19:28

I'm not great at politics Blush
But wasn't TM in the remain camp?

She took over because DC resigned over the vote leave win and so if she has taken over to start article 50.

I despise DC - but if TM doesn't start Brexit then the whole in/out who's going to lead torys was a pointless exercise.

I'm not a leaver btw - but I do fear the consequences of not attempting or negotiating Brexit after all this would cause more unrest.

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 29/08/2016 19:30

Oooh! I am as it goes. Send it my way Smile

Good luck with your paper.

I don't doubt that evoking it is a piece of piss either but it erks me a bit when I hear that because it's so complicated it would just be easier not to bother at all. Surely it cannot be that complicated that it just cannot be done at all.

WrongTrouser · 29/08/2016 19:36

The "it's just too complicated" line really gets me riled. Along with the "we haven't got enough trade deal negotiators so we'll never be able to negotiate any trade deals". (head hunt some from other countries then?). I'm not saying it's easy but neither was sequencing the human genome but we managed that. It's a nonsense.

Secretmetalfan · 29/08/2016 19:40

It would be a travesty if the result was not followed through. If remain had won should we have left anyway? We can still trade with Europe (on new negotiated terms) as well as the rest of the world on better terms. Immigration can still happen, on our terms. Corporate transactions are still happening, people are still hiring, the world is still turning. I can still get more euros for my pound than last time I went to Rome.

VoyageOfDad · 29/08/2016 19:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bearbehind · 29/08/2016 19:41

wrongtrouser do you have anything more specific to add than 'it's a nonsense'

How exactly do you expect a bunch of civil service personnel, who didn't want to go down the path that's been choose and who don't actually have a clue what the end result actually looks like, to implement 'Brexit'.

Let's start with what you want Brexit to look like shall we?

LyraMortalia · 29/08/2016 19:45

No thank you Bear I've seen your posts on the Referendum board you don't wants answers you just want to berate people. This thread has been very polite so far thank you everyone Flowers

Bearbehind · 29/08/2016 19:48

lyra, I don't want to berate people, I just want answers.

Sadly they're not forthcoming.

It's not impolite to ask questions.

Lweji · 29/08/2016 19:49

We should have a referendum to decide if we should have another referendum.

Finally, someone with some sense.

WrongTrouser · 29/08/2016 19:54

Around 61% of people who voted tory at the last GE voted leave (from YouGov). At the moment the tories are massively ahead in the opinion polls. If TM decided not to invoke A50, wouldn't that have a huge effect on the tory vote at the next GE?

I think TM will invoke A50 so I suppose I am just asking this hypothetically. My view is that it would do extreme damage to the tories (and more importantly wreck our civil society and damage people's trust in our political system massively) if we don't leave the EU.

youarenotkiddingme · 29/08/2016 19:59

Yes wrong that's what I was saying/asking!
If not following through after referendum and DC resignation over result would cause as much political unrest.

LoveInTokyo · 29/08/2016 20:02

MrsItsNoworNotatAll

Will do! It'll be finished in a few days... eek!

It's not so complicated that it can't be done, but the withdrawal procedure appears to have been designed to discourage withdrawal (rather understandably), and the people who drafted it are now saying it was "for display purposes only" and they never intended for it to actually be used. We can debate the wisdom of that until the cows come home, but we are where we are, it we are going to exit then that is the procedure we have to follow, and looking at it, it seems quite unlikely that we are going to come out of all this with a better deal than the one we have now. Sad

Bearbehind · 29/08/2016 20:02

wrongtrouser I think what will happen is there'll be a lot of huff and puff and noises made about leaving the EU, a few things will change (not necessarily for the better), TM will say Brexit has been implemented and, at enormous cost, it'll all carry on as it did before.

LoveInTokyo · 29/08/2016 20:03

I'm not saying it's easy but neither was sequencing the human genome but we managed that.

There was quite an obvious point to doing that though. Wink

WrongTrouser · 29/08/2016 20:11

Bear I am finding this a refreshingly reasonable discussion with many thoughtful, considered contributions, mostly respectfully expressed. I hope it continues that way. I think we can safely say that you will not consider any "answers" I give satisfactory and I would prefer to just continue contributing to the thread as I feel appropriate, thank you.

HyacinthFuckit · 29/08/2016 20:15

I read somewhere that demographics being what they are, it would only take until around 2021 for Remain to be the majority in the population rather than Leave. If that's true, it gives rise to some intriguing possibilities. Naturally this is a massive over-simplification, relies on people not changing their minds one way or another etc, but it's one way to go about things. The longer you hang on, the lower your chance of being held to account for not doing what the people wanted, the further away 2016 becomes. Personally I don't think this will be the first choice as I suspect the preference will be for technical Brexit with continued free movement and single market access, though whether we'd get that is another thing altogether. But I'd be surprised if the thought hasn't occurred to anyone.

Bearbehind · 29/08/2016 20:17

wrong, why is it so difficult for any leaver to state what they actually want?

You'd think they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 29/08/2016 20:38

I have noticed when anyone who voted to Leave explains why and what they want to happen they just get shouted down and accused of being racist or xenophobic and so on.

Of course if you did vote to Leave because you are either of those things then you deserve all the abuse you get. I am neither and I am long past explaining my reasons for voting Leave.

Some voted to Leave some voted to remain. Let's just respect one anothers vote.

LoveinTokyo yes I've read the same thing. But I'm optimistic that it might actually be ok. Surely it's a possibility?

It really is a case of wait and see isn't it!

WrongTrouser · 29/08/2016 20:46

Bear, many leavers on many threads have explained why they want to leave the EU. Oh, sorry I forgot, all those reasons have been disputed by remainers debunked and are no longer valid reasons.

It is not difficult for me to state what I want from leaving the EU. I just don't want to do so on this thread and get into an unproductive , dead-end argument. I have politely declined to answer your questions and you are using my reply to a) make generalisations about leave voters and b) try to imply that leavers do not have any answers. This is why I don't want to answer your questionsSmile

PrettyBotanicals · 29/08/2016 20:53

I'd genuinely love to know exactly which glittering future careers for 'our children' have actually gone down the pan.

Round here, there are almost no kids with a second European language, aren't very widely travelled and don't plan to move within the EU. They want jobs locally and see decreased competition for low skilled positions as a good thing.

The private school kids have the same advantages they always did; exposure to (global) languages, cultural capital, travel etc.

They all seem pretty sanguine about having to apply for a work visa if they choose to live somewhere that requires it.