To think Corbyn has been exposed as a liar

[JonathanDunn]

He lied about the train. Aibu to think this is a show of character

Really - two people died prematurely...implication was that JC would go the same way?

Could have chosen many other people - eg Kinnock (still alive) Milliband (still alive) Clare Short (still alive) Cook wasn't as left wing as JC was he and nor was Smith - so why choose them?

Because the thing that ended John Smith and Robin Cook's political careers was their deaths.

John Smith was leader of the Labour Party when he died.

Whats far more important than whether Corbyn needed to sit on a train floor is the question of what happens after he wins the leadership election next month. He'll need a new shadow cabinet or else welcome back some defectors perhaps. Corbyn has inspired many voters but aren't we just going to end up back at the same situation where he leads an ineffective opposition in parliament?

I place much blame for his failures in leadership on his cabal of advisers, they kept the last shadow cabinet out of the loop, rank and file MPs were blocked from access and everyone left in the dark on policy it seems. Shadow cabinet members would promote positions on issues that they believed were the party line, only to be contradicted by Corbyn/McDonnell making them look incompetent or deliberately ill-informed.

I'm afraid I have no confidence in an improved Labour opposition this time around, the only opposition Corbyn/McDonnell & Co seem to be focused on are their "enemies" in the Labour party.

Can't see anyone mentioning murder, where has that come from?
Context is everything and twisting someone's words isn't for Mn, that's what politicians do

Where did you get that Blair or the left murdered them? That kind of shenannigans is strictly right wing.

PortiaCastis From here. Merrtmouse stated it on the previous page, I did not make it up.
merrymouse Tue 30-Aug-16 20:02:44
He won't make it to the 2020 election. He'll be another left wing 'casualty'. Another John Smith or Robin Cook.

Sorry missed this - you think the Labour Party/New Labour/Tony Blair murdered John Smith and Robin Cook and Jeremy Corbyn is next?

I have seriously never known a smear campaign like it- all I hear about is Jeremy Corbyn! It's like no politician does, or ever will, exist.

Even the guardian have it in for him. JC has pissed a lot of people off.

I was trying to clarify what was being said. I still don't understand why two politicians whose careers were ended by sudden death have been used to show why JC "won't make it till 2020".

At no point I have suggested he will be 'murdered'. These are your words. What I am saying is that whether via smear campaigns or media degradation, it is unlikely he will stand as the opposition leader in the 2020 election.

The BBC is already trying to undermine him at every given opportunity. I'm not a 'Jeremy is Jesus' supporter. I quit the Jeremy Corbyn Supporters Facebook page because of this shite. But when my local wannabe Labour MP is allowed to used 'storm troopers' to describe Corbyn supporters, and his comments make it to well-established print media without question, then you have to wonder what the fuck is going on.

Am Jewish, btw, albeit a 'self-hating' one.

So it was an unfortunate coincidence that you mentioned two MPs who died suddenly, one while leader of the Labour Party?

Yes, merry

An unfortunate coincidence.

Thank you for clarifying although I'm still not sure what they have to do with Jeremy Corbyn.

I agree it wasn't a good choice of words but I read nazi storm troopers I guess that is in reference to the antisemitism accusations of the left that just won't go away

How are the BBC trying to undermine him. He won't cooperate with the media, his team release information too late and any critisism of him is meet with cries of his very vocal support momentum of
Blairite

What's going on is the Labour Party is badly led by someone who the majority of his mp's have no confidence in, a man many feel should not be leading the party and is splitting the party

There is no conspiracy it's spin from his team that his supporters want to beleive as they can then blame that for the disastrous results in the election should he still be leader

Newsnight tonight had a report about how Corbyn will be running digital election campaigns.

Corbyn has lots of people avidly supporting him on Facebook so that's where he will focus attention. So basically preaching to the tiny minority of the population who are already converted.

And what about getting behind your leader? That lasted 5 minutes.

ishouldhavebeen Interesting you describe your support for Corbyn and your 'self-hating' Jewishness.

He hasn't pocketed thousands in expenses

See, I think it's this kind of statement, from supporters, that is fuelling the negative spin.

The media take delight in "proving" that a vocal minority are wrong.

And many Corbyn supporters are making sweeping, and incorrect, statements about the man they support. They want to believe that their man is beyond reproach. That he has lived his life free of any of the scandals and behaviour that has been criticised by the public in the past. They want to believe he is truly different.

It's not a surprise that the media are focusing on the contradictions between what Corbyn supporters say and recorded facts.

If Corbyn supporters were a bit less idealistic, and admitted that their man makes mistakes, and accept that, like all MPs, his conduct is not always in line with his rhetoric, then he'd be a non-story.

Re. pocketing thousands in expenses. I really don't have a problem with MPs and other elected officials claiming back what they've spent in the course of carrying out their duties, even if it is thousands. I suspect that Corbyn falls into this category. What I have a problem with is those who claim expenses for building duck ponds and swimming pool maintenance while spending very little time in their constituencies and treating their constituents with complete contempt (Stewart Jackson MP I'm looking at you!)

Re. pocketing thousands in expenses. I really don't have a problem with MPs and other elected officials claiming back what they've spent in the course of carrying out their duties, even if it is thousands. I suspect that Corbyn falls into this category

You suspect? And, TBH, what you think is acceptable, legitimate expenses, may not be to someone else.

Raising his expenses as an example of how ethical and moral he is compared to others is fine, if it is known that he is squeaky clean - but he can't be, because it's always going to be open to interpretation.

The information as to what he spent his expenses on is publicly available.

And it is undoubtedly open to criticism, because what one person views as a legitimate expense, another will think is an indulgent luxury.

How much do his offices cost? He could have got them cheaper.
How many staff has he got? He should cut back and make them work harder.
What pay rise did he give his staff? Public sector workers have had a pay freeze for years.

Not to mention the other costs incurred by the state - security etc - that he doesn't pay for and claim back - but are directly related to the choices he makes in terms of lifestyle. Refusing an official car, for instance, looks like a selfless act, but is it actually cheaper than providing the security he requires when traveling by public transport?

He's not "beyond reproach" - no one is, not even JC.

Newsnight tonight had a report about how Corbyn will be running digital election campaigns.

I think he needs to sort out how to do bullet point formatting first. Baby step, baby steps.

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57c5699be4b02f8e29d7cfe9#

Appearing at Newspeak House Shoreditch on Tuesday morning, he said: “My leadership campaign is leading the way in harnessing the advances of new technology to organise political campaigning like we’ve never seen before.

“The creativity of the networked young generation is phenomenal. We have thousands of young volunteers on our campaign taking part in this digital revolution.

Although the young volunteer responsible for updating his website appears to have been bunking off since the last update in April.

And there is nothing like launching a communication strategy from a hipster location called 'Newspeak House' to say

"Nope, I'm happy with the niche supporters I have - Can't think of anything worse than being one of those sell out parties with mass appeal!".

I didn't raise the expenses issue NN, I was responding to it. Of course office running costs are viewed subjectively. We're talking about 'pocketing thousands' - and pocketing says to me something to which it is abundantly clear you should not be entitled (essentially stealing), such as the examples I provided.

Fwiw I'm not a defender of Corbyn, I don't like him and I get sick of hearing how bloody principled he is. I'm just saying that if there's a morally dubious 'grey' area for things such as expenses, there is also an area of clearly and obviously leaping over the boundaries of common decency - i.e completely taking the piss. Whatever my thoughts on Corbyn and his leadership, he doesn't seem to be a man who falls into the latter category.

MPs are rightly scrutinised for their spending, but that does not necessarily mean that their spending is unjustified or unwarranted, even if it does run into thousands. They could be a very active constituency MP who serves their populace, whatever their political colour, loyally. Or alternatively they could be one of the other examples I provided.

I take that bloody train every week and trust me he isn't lying. Every bloody seat is always reserved & Virgin will fine/kick people off if they insist on sitting on the empty ones before getting permission. Also 1/3 of the train always runs empty or near empty as it's just for 1st Class customers.