To think co-sleeping with toddlers is madness?

[Grapejuiceforgrownups]

We have a 16m old, recently went on a week long holiday with friends and their 19m old. Our toddler naps 12-2 or thereabouts, she had some naps in car or buggy if we were out and about but prefer her to nap in cot where possible. She sleeps 7-7ish, went to bed later on some nights as we were on hols. We have a 10 min long bedtime routine and she usually falls asleep within 5 mins of going in cot, if she cries we take her out again, settle her then put her back but this is rare. On the week long holiday she woke two of the nights in the night, took 5 min of settling. Other 5 nights she slept through.

Friends' DS won't sleep unless there is a parent with him so one of them has to lie down and either sleep or pretend to be asleep for up to an hour to get him to have a nap. At bedtime they do the same. Every night at about 10pm he would be up again screaming, I'm guessing because he would wake and get upset that the parent he fell asleep with was gone, and he would usually come into the lounge with us and fall asleep in his mum's arms. He won't sleep in a cot so they have to put the mattress on the floor surrounded by cushions. When they go to bed he sleeps between them and kicks all night when he is asleep, wakes up hourly and fusses and needs soothing, so basically neither of them get any sleep. During the day he was grumpy and tired, rubbing his eyes a lot. No set bedtime (usually goes to bed with them at 9ish at home they said), no set nap times, no routine that I could see. He's not BF since 1 year.

I get why you would co-sleep with a little baby, we did occasionally when ours was little and we did everything baby led for the first 4 months before gently adding a night time routine. She was in a bednest until 6m then cot in her own room. We've never done CIO, I don't have a problem with controlled crying if done gently but it wasn't for us. We rocked or cuddled to sleep until 8m then used pick up put down method to teach her to self settle.

I'm asking in the spirit of genuine curiosity rather than hoiking up my judgey pants, but it seemed so mad to me that they were still at newborn levels of exhaustion when he is 1.5 years old, I genuinely want to know what the benefits are of extended co-sleeping and why people do it? Am I missing a trick??

We have "coslept" with most of ours as toddlers. There is nothing quite like waking up together as a family IMO. There is big effort. I love the excuse to have a nap in the middle of the day.

YABU. You are confusing cause and effect. I bet it was obvious you were being a judgy fucker. Your poor friends.

Why do so many people seem to believe there are hoards of stupid and ineffectual people out there encouraging poor sleep and unable to see it - even their own friends and family? Is it really that unpalatable to consider that each child is an individual in their own right, not a robot to be programmed?

I love waking up to find that one or more of my children has slept starfish like in our bed.

Reminds me of my aunt. She has 4 kids, first three easy as pie. Sometimes had an issue here or there (with sleep or fussy eating or minor behaviour issues) but with some sensible steps always resolved itself. She considered herself quite the expert in parenting - if only people would follow her advice no parenting problems would exist ever.

Then she had her forth child. She just wouldn't sleep, she tried routine, still wouldn't sleep, she tried letting her set her own routine, still wouldn't sleep, she tried more food less food. Settling the baby down, trying to leave her to settle herself down. In the end she was in her parents bed for about 3 years (now she's 6 and sleeps fine). My aunt is no longer an expert in parenting though.

YABU. It's not madness, but it may well help Avert the madness brought about by several years of sleep deprivation caused by a child who won't sleep any other way!

I do look forward to all those with the smug ' well i just did it right' getting your commeuppance. And coming back here to tell us all about it.

In my experience, those kids that were easy to routine into decent sleep are often nightmare toddler tantrum throwers. Or suddenly become fussy eaters. Or won't toilet train. Or stop sleeping so well after all.

And it is hard not to laugh out loud when I hear this.

You have to adapt yourself and your life to your kids sometime. In my experience, the upside of having to do it early to cope with a tough sleeper is that the rest is easier to handle, because you've already got on board with listening to and adapting to your child's needs, rather than just imposing your will. EVERYONE has to do that sometime. (Which is not to say you just do what the kids want, no no. It's much more subtle and complex that).

Good luck with the fall that will some day follow your pride...

You sound incredibly smug and judgemental.

I don't co sleep. I don't like it and prefer everyone to have their own space to sleep in our house, but i get why other people do it. Not everyone has an easy going kid who will go along with a routine, for some it is the only way to get some sleep.

Get over yourself and concentrate on your own kid

I don't think you can base judgement on the two sleeping arrangements from just two children on a shared holiday

I cosleep with my 2 year old, and coslept with my twins until they were over 3 years. For the majority of those year, all this children would fall asleep with about 15 mins of 'lights out', though there were also periods when they struggled to settle.

My twins are now 6 years old. The three children (6, 6 and 2) all go to bed in my bed, where I read stories and then stay until they're all asleep. My husband and I carry the two big ones to their beds when we go to bed.

The hardest stretch by far was the year or so that I tried to make the twins fall asleep in their own beds (same room). I am on my own at bedtime, and night after night it would take 1 hr or more to get them to sleep. I eventually ditched that when DC3 arrived as there was no way I could manage bedtime alone with two older children plus the baby. So we started doing stories in my bed again and are still doing so 2 years on.

Bedsharing works for my family. We have an enormous bed so that we have space. All children and adults are happy with the arrangement and we all get the most sleep.

The first answer from Sirzy says everything!

I just had to respond!

You are SO lucky OP to have such a good sleeper you don't realise the misery having a child who is a bad sleeper brings.

We started off exactly the same as you, our DD slept through from 6 weeks, could self settle if she woke up and we had a good bedtime routine approx 8pm-7am every night established by 3 months. Then at 8 months it all changed! For no reason! She doesn't do day time naps at all and hasn't since 10 months old! Her night time routine is we have to drive her to get her to go to sleep and that is often until 10.30pm. She then wakes at 1am every night and after several weeks of refusing to allow her in our bed we eventually were so exhausted we let her in. And she's up every morning at 6am!

Don't be so quick to judge your friends, you're coming across extremely smug even if you don't mean to.

Meant to add our DD is 21 months old!

Instead of being smug about your own child sleeping ability (which I can assure you is not some great parenting skill but pure luck) just accept that other people do whatever works and causes less stress throughout the whole family.

Not everyone can go through the trauma of controlled crying.

OP, I was like you too once. Lulled into a false sense of parenting security because DS was such a good sleeper. I used to joke that I could probably stand in the doorway and just throw him into his cot and he'd still sleep through. I absolutely took credit for it and assumed it was because I'd worked hard at routines and done everything 'right'. I was definitely a bit smug and wondered why on earth would anyone not do things properly and deprive themselves of sleep for years and years.

Then DD came along and single handedly shattered any illusion I had that DS and his excellent sleep were in any way my achievement. God, she was awful and still now (3yrs) is poor at sleeping through or staying in her own bed. I don't even like thinking about the amount of hours I spent feeding, rocking, shushing, wanting to screech into my pillow. Of course we co-slept; co-sleeping is better than no-sleeping and I hate co-sleeping. I like my space and peace.

DS2 is the opposite again, we're only 4 months in but my word, he's a champion sleeper so far. Does that magical self settling thing I'd started to think was a fairytale after years of sleep deprivation at the hands of DD.

So you are not BU to wonder at their choices, but you're definitely BU if you judge them for it. Just thank your lucky stars you're not having to do the same!

6 months ago I would have thought the same, however now DH or I carry DS into our bed when we go to sleep and he stays there, having gone to sleep in his own bed around 7pm.

As a baby he slept badly for the first 18 months, then brilliantly for 18 months and then the night wakings started again. We tried all sorts but ultimately we both work full time and cannot survive on such little sleep. I don't love co-sleeping but I love the amount of sleep we all get now.

A and a big Fuck Off for the OP and any other parent who thinks their child's great sleep is because of their parenting and that if other parents just did what they do the other child would sleep too.

It doesn't work that way. Wish it did but it doesn't.

YABU to associate his bad sleeping (and tired parents) to the fact they cosleep. I go sleep with my toddler and 4 year old. I do lay with them to get them to sleep, which CAN take an hour. However, they both sleep through, I sleep though and everyone wakes up feeling well rested and happy.
My children look forward to bed time as it's cuddle/book time and have positive associations with sleep and bedtime. Won't last forever so I appreciate it while it does

This thread is from August. The OP didn't come back then to justify her sanctimony, idoubt she will now.

cheby she is probably having a nap with her beautifully sleeping toddler.