To think co-sleeping with toddlers is madness?

[Grapejuiceforgrownups]

We have a 16m old, recently went on a week long holiday with friends and their 19m old. Our toddler naps 12-2 or thereabouts, she had some naps in car or buggy if we were out and about but prefer her to nap in cot where possible. She sleeps 7-7ish, went to bed later on some nights as we were on hols. We have a 10 min long bedtime routine and she usually falls asleep within 5 mins of going in cot, if she cries we take her out again, settle her then put her back but this is rare. On the week long holiday she woke two of the nights in the night, took 5 min of settling. Other 5 nights she slept through.

Friends' DS won't sleep unless there is a parent with him so one of them has to lie down and either sleep or pretend to be asleep for up to an hour to get him to have a nap. At bedtime they do the same. Every night at about 10pm he would be up again screaming, I'm guessing because he would wake and get upset that the parent he fell asleep with was gone, and he would usually come into the lounge with us and fall asleep in his mum's arms. He won't sleep in a cot so they have to put the mattress on the floor surrounded by cushions. When they go to bed he sleeps between them and kicks all night when he is asleep, wakes up hourly and fusses and needs soothing, so basically neither of them get any sleep. During the day he was grumpy and tired, rubbing his eyes a lot. No set bedtime (usually goes to bed with them at 9ish at home they said), no set nap times, no routine that I could see. He's not BF since 1 year.

I get why you would co-sleep with a little baby, we did occasionally when ours was little and we did everything baby led for the first 4 months before gently adding a night time routine. She was in a bednest until 6m then cot in her own room. We've never done CIO, I don't have a problem with controlled crying if done gently but it wasn't for us. We rocked or cuddled to sleep until 8m then used pick up put down method to teach her to self settle.

I'm asking in the spirit of genuine curiosity rather than hoiking up my judgey pants, but it seemed so mad to me that they were still at newborn levels of exhaustion when he is 1.5 years old, I genuinely want to know what the benefits are of extended co-sleeping and why people do it? Am I missing a trick??

*you're

My first son (now 4) was an absolutely horrendous sleeper for first 6-9 (I forget, the trauma you see ) months of his life, and would literally spend his days and nights in a vicious cycle of 20mins asleep, then 2 hours screaming. It was the most soul-destroying thing ever and I swear we nearly went mad. DH lost 2 stone from the stress and I lost almost 3. Everyone had an opinion, but we tried EVERYTHING the only thing that made a difference was time. Co-sleeping, cot, swing whatever, same screaming, same lack of sleep.

He switched over night into a 10 and eventually 12 hour sleeper. He was so much happier and it was only then we felt like we met our son.

Due to his cuteness, we decided to do it again anyway . 6 weeks ago I had our second son. Despite doing nothing differently, he is already sleeping up to 5 hours a night between feeds. Completely different kid, great sleeper.

Some kids suck at sleep whatever you do. I suggest you support your friends as they are doing the very best they can.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who sounded just like you when her first child was a baby and we were struggling with dd's multiple wakings. Now she is going through it with her second child who is a terrible sleeper, and apologised to me for being such a smug twat.

I think yabu, because you seem to be assuming that if they had treated their child the way you treated yours it would have had the same effect. But all children are different.

^ this.

Not rtft but OP you are lucky that you have a good sleeper. Yes your routine probably compliments your babies natural ability to sleep well and maybe they wouldn't sleep so well if you didn't. But I bet they'd still sleep a heck of a lot better than other babies!

My DD has been in a fairly strict routine since she was about 4 mo the old (tried before that but she was in too much pain with her silent reflux and cmpa, nothing we did would have made her sleep without treatment) but she has always had trouble sleeping. It's just the way she is, it's her temperament.

I have friends whose babies have slept through from a week old and they didn't do anything the baby just did it!

I hope for your sake you don't have a non sleeper next so your comments don't come back to bite you in the arse!

Oh and we still co sleep at 22 months because we enjoy it and it's natural

I was Smuggy McSmugton with my first too. Brilliant sleeper and napper from a baby.

Number two soon slapped that out of me. Struggled with naps and sleep from 5months, dropped all naps at 10months and still couldn't get her to sleep at night.

We still co-sleep at nearly 4yo but getting kicked all night long is a small price to pay. I severely struggle with sleep deprivation. She'll move into her own bed when she's ready.

Madness is trying to reason with a tantruming toddler for 2 hrs plus in the middle of the night, when they can just come in your bed and you'll be asleep within 5.

Good for you getting a sleeper first time round OP

You clearly have a good sleeper. Congratulations. It must be down to your stellar parenting.

Do you genuinely think that the other parents you were away with enjoy jumping through all those hoops to get their baby to sleep? That they want to have a crappy sleeper?

I must be an absolutely shite parent as I have three non-sleepers. I hate co-sleeping but I do it because the alternative is basically cry it out, which I refuse to do. I've tried all 'gentle' methods of sleep training and they haven't worked. But thanks for the tips OP, I'll be sure to give them a try with baby number four that is due in Jan.

Ds is 2.2 and we cosleep quite regularly. He doesn't have specific nap times, we've never been ones for sticking to a routine as our lives often means travel or mixed work schedules. I've never been able to put ds down awake. We have to cuddle him to sleep, either in our bed or by kneeling next to his then cot and now bed. If he wakes in the night then he comes in with us as I'll be damned if I'm spending time in the middle of the night crouched on the floor trying to get him to sleep when I have to be up for work at 6am. Dh and I have full on jobs and we need our sleep. You just do your best and hope others do the same.

OP?!? Think this is the point where you come back and realise YABU

Yeah, that's gonna happen

Depends so much on your child.
Dd1 would sleep well cot or buggy. 12 hours a night, 3 hours in the afternoon from 8 weeks. Nothing disturbed her almost. She would have slept well either in our bed or the cot.
Dd2 nothing made her sleep well. Marginally better during the day in a moving buggy, but didn't sleep well until she got given the delightful, but no longer licenced, medised at about 18 months. Slept worse in our bed because she liked to lie perpendicular to me and dh.
Ds slept much better in with us. He always started off in his Moses basket or cot-changing to a mattress on the floor once he could climb out at 7 months. He slept much better in with us, particularly when he had ear infections. He still sleeps better and longer in with us at 9yo.
But when he was toddler age the difference between him waking around ever 2 hours in his bed-even though often the waking was only him tossing/turning and singing it always woke me, and coming into our bed and sleeping through the rest of the night was such that I much preferred to pop him down with us once he'd woken once.
He slept in with me last night for the first time for ages (dh is away) and he slept 90 minutes later than he normally does.

Both my children were variously rubbish at sleeping, and spent considerable amounts of time sleeping in our bed, although we did at least try to start them off in the cot. We had to sit beside them while they went to sleep to, would rather not have spent our evenings that way but that's the way it was.

I had a friend with one child who was a great sleeper, settled easily and sleeping through the night by around 4 months. She babysat for me and has admitted that she thought we were a bit bonkers as she sat with our youngest while she went to sleep.

Then she had her second child...

Who took until around 3 years to sleep through the night.

She no longer puts the sleeping down to her brilliant parenting...

It is entirely possible that he just isn't a great sleep and still wouldn't be without co sleeping.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Could you tell dd for us, thanks! In fact, feel free to come sleep train her for us ...

I had a similar thread to this one recently; about the total uncomfortableness of sleeping with toddlers and how to manage. I was hardly expecting more than a couple of answers but it ran and ran. Loads of helpful answers and so interesting to see how everyone gets by.

At that point DD (2.3) was still in a cot, but wasn't sleeping well. We were stuck in a rut of bringing her into our bed in the middle of each night simply to save the awful drag across the landing to her 3/4 more times each night. It did mean the end of that half dead nocturnal staggering, but due to wriggling, arms lashing and 'starfish sleeping' it did not mean a peaceful night at all. It wasn't a case of ''co-sleep or no-sleep'' for us, it was a case of ''co-sleep still means no-sleep, but just less getting out of bed''.

My update is that DD is now in her own double bed (she took to it immediately) and roughly 6 nights out of 10 she sleeps through. Happy days The 4ish times out of 10 she doesn't, we are able to lay with her for as long as it takes for her to drop off and then creep away :)

Well, you're bloody lucky.
My ds is a bit like your friend's ds. 15 months old and mostly co-sleeps with us. We never ever intended for this to happen and tried REALLY HARD to get him to sleep more in his cot but he just won't. And having him in with us, whilst not ideal, is waaaay better than the alternative.
I have slept through the night approximately twice in the last 15 months. I'd take any chance to sleep through the night, without a small wriggly guest next to me, but for now I just have to take the path of least resistance just to be able to function.

Hmm, once upon a time when I had ds1 I would have agreed with you, but since having ds2 to be honest nothing surprise me anymore and I never judge.

My DC2 has always a miles better sleeper than my DC1, and I haven't done anything substantially different.

He just sorted out all the sleep issues for himself, whereas with DC1 (DD) everything had to be specifically dealt with (night weaning, falling asleep alone etc.)

My non-co-sleeping DSis was awful. I think it would have been better for my parents marriage and sanity if they had just bunged her in with them. She slept like a dream for the first six months of her life, and from then on every night when in cot or bed, it took my parents 2-3 hours to settle her. It was madness. This carried on until she was about 6 I think.

We co-slept with DD, but usually put her down and to sleep on her own, then we just joined her later. She went into her own room after I stopped bf at 2, but will still come through and flop on her bed if she does wake during the night, which is rare. When she does join us I usually only know when I wake up in the morning and she's there.

They're are all different. Just thank your lucky stars the one you have sleeps.

I CO sleep with my three year old I put him in his own bed but as soon as he wakes up he comes belting into mine saying I'm scared I'm scared 😓 what am I supposed to say to that?

That's very similar to mine. We have 'I don't want to be alone' and 'I'm scared of owls and fixes'- bloody Peter Rabbit has a lot to answer for!

FFS- foxes not fixes!

Maybe I was lucky (twice) or maybe it was (whisper) Gina Ford or one of the many sleep books I devoured determined not to end up at my wits end like my DM. I had two very different babies. I was not claiming to be a superior parent just stating what I did and why co sleeping was not for me. Why does any conversation around sleep turn into accusations of smugness.

Maybe I was lucky (twice) or maybe it was (whisper) Gina Ford or one of the many sleep books I devoured determined not to end up at my wits end like my DM. I had two very different babies. I was not claiming to be a superior parent just stating what I did and why co sleeping was not for me. Why does any conversation around sleep turn into accusations of smugness.

The thing is, when you say things like this it rather sounds as though you think co-sleeping parents haven't read the books/made an effort to get their DC to sleep through the night in their own bed. I have. I really have. I have a kindle full of sleep books. But the fact remains that I cannot actually stop him waking up in the night, or having bad dreams and being scared and needing a cuddle. I could refuse to give him a cuddle after a bad dream and just let him cry I suppose, but I'm not prepared to do that.

Maybe I was lucky (twice) or maybe it was (whisper) Gina Ford or one of the many sleep books I devoured determined not to end up at my wits end like my DM. I had two very different babies. I was not claiming to be a superior parent just stating what I did and why co sleeping was not for me. Why does any conversation around sleep turn into accusations of smugness.

The thing is, when you say things like this it rather sounds as though you think co-sleeping parents haven't read the books/made an effort to get their DC to sleep through the night in their own bed. I have. I really have. I have a kindle full of sleep books. But the fact remains that I cannot actually stop him waking up in the night, or having bad dreams and being scared and needing a cuddle. I could refuse to give him a cuddle after a bad dream and just let him cry I suppose, but I'm not prepared to do that.

My bedside table was piled high with books on sleeping for many, many months. Everyone we know had an opinion or suggestions, we consulted a sleep trainer, we would have paid a bloody shaman if it had meant DS2 not waking at 1, 2, 3 and 4am each day.

I am a fairly bright woman, DH is fearsomely smart. Between us I imagine we read pretty much everything there was available on sleep and babies. Unfortunately DS2 didn't give a shit about our reading habits or what we knew, and just felt compelled to wake often for the first five years of his life. You can read til your eyes bleed - that doesn't prevent your child being a bad sleeper.