To think co-sleeping with toddlers is madness?

[Grapejuiceforgrownups]

We have a 16m old, recently went on a week long holiday with friends and their 19m old. Our toddler naps 12-2 or thereabouts, she had some naps in car or buggy if we were out and about but prefer her to nap in cot where possible. She sleeps 7-7ish, went to bed later on some nights as we were on hols. We have a 10 min long bedtime routine and she usually falls asleep within 5 mins of going in cot, if she cries we take her out again, settle her then put her back but this is rare. On the week long holiday she woke two of the nights in the night, took 5 min of settling. Other 5 nights she slept through.

Friends' DS won't sleep unless there is a parent with him so one of them has to lie down and either sleep or pretend to be asleep for up to an hour to get him to have a nap. At bedtime they do the same. Every night at about 10pm he would be up again screaming, I'm guessing because he would wake and get upset that the parent he fell asleep with was gone, and he would usually come into the lounge with us and fall asleep in his mum's arms. He won't sleep in a cot so they have to put the mattress on the floor surrounded by cushions. When they go to bed he sleeps between them and kicks all night when he is asleep, wakes up hourly and fusses and needs soothing, so basically neither of them get any sleep. During the day he was grumpy and tired, rubbing his eyes a lot. No set bedtime (usually goes to bed with them at 9ish at home they said), no set nap times, no routine that I could see. He's not BF since 1 year.

I get why you would co-sleep with a little baby, we did occasionally when ours was little and we did everything baby led for the first 4 months before gently adding a night time routine. She was in a bednest until 6m then cot in her own room. We've never done CIO, I don't have a problem with controlled crying if done gently but it wasn't for us. We rocked or cuddled to sleep until 8m then used pick up put down method to teach her to self settle.

I'm asking in the spirit of genuine curiosity rather than hoiking up my judgey pants, but it seemed so mad to me that they were still at newborn levels of exhaustion when he is 1.5 years old, I genuinely want to know what the benefits are of extended co-sleeping and why people do it? Am I missing a trick??

Oh I'd read all the books. The trouble was, my baby hadn't.

Maybe I was lucky (twice)

I think your sentence could probably have stopped there.

None of my business, but I understand how it would be distressing for a small child to go to sleep lying next to a parent, and then wake up alone.

I sit next to my son every night while he drops off. He's 2.5. He sleeps through and wakes happy. It's lovely.

What I want to know is whether co-sleepers have a special breed of toddlers who don't rotate through 360 degrees every two hours or insist on adopting the position of a starfish. I get far more sleep through getting up to soothe and cuddle a restless poorly toddler every two hours during the night than I would co-sleeping because I actually manage to get some sleep in the intervening times, which I wouldn't if DS was in my bed.

Or do they have enormous beds or complicated mattress arrangements? I think if we had to cosleep then I'd put DS in the double and DH and I would sleep on mats on the floor either side.

We have a super king sized bed. And both of our children were non-wriggling, non-starfishers

Good for you. Your child sleeps by themselves.

So for the most part do mine. But seriously it's no difficult to imagine a child who wants their parents at night.

Off to Rtft

Re the 'rod for your own back' and 'encouraging bad habits' thoughts...I co-slept as a baby and toddler and I promise you I have no inclination to crawl into my parents' bed now. Nor did I after the age of about 3 except for opening stockings on Christmas morning but even that stopped at about 8.

'Making a rod for your own back' has to be the most infuriating thing in the world ever that anyone can say to a parent. My Mum says it on a regular basis and it gives me the rage!

OP I think nobody knows if babies sleep badly because of bad routines or personality but I have seen plenty of things people do with their badly sleeping babies that if I did with mine would disrupt their ability to be a good sleeper. I have had 3 very different babies and when tiny especially my last one was horrific, up every night between 10-15 times until 7 months. But I suddenly realised I was not following our own rules about bedtime that we had learned worked with the last 2 (because my confidence and energy to think was shot with this baby) and I bit the bullet and did a total change in everything only to find the baby slept through from the second night and has done for a month since. It would have been very easy for me to have kept going with the co-sleeping, sleep-feeding, quick responses etc. I very almost did. And I think I'd be one of the ones saying 'some babies just dont sleep' if I had. I think about this sometimes myself and don't have any definite conclusion on all babies but I think its safe to say that some babies are not helped by their bad night time routine.

We also invested in a super king bed once we realised we weren't getting the bed to ourselves all night again for a while!

I think people do whatever they need to in order to get some sleep!!! Our boy slept all night from 7weeks to 7 months. Now we have him in bed with us otherwise he screams the bloody place down

I have 2 non sleepers. Dd is 3 and is terrified of being alone so she comes in to us when she wakes up . Ds isn't as bad but more often than not we wake up with 4 people in a double bed . Madness it may be but at least we get some sleep that way.

Is OP not returning to share more of her sleep wisdom with us? Quelle surprise.

It should be obvious by now, but madness is thinking you're better qualified than a child's parent to assess what gets them the most sleep. And can people really not conceive of a small child who sleeps better with a parent present? It's hardly an out there concept, any more so than one who likes to spread out in bed and have plenty of space.

Well cosleepers must have ginormous beds then. We have a super king, kids v rarely get in during the night, and I still spend half the night kicking my husband when I'm asleep and the rest of the time he's squashing me. I don't think we could cope with anyone else in there...

No ginormous bed - we were just fortunate enough to have a baby who didn't wriggle or kick. Absolutely no skill or good habits involved, just the luck of the draw.

Babies vary, a bit like parents.

Haven't read the other responses but OP sounds like a smug cheeky judges person, wouldn't want to go on holiday with you. Babies either sleep in a cot or they don't and people so what they have to do. Smug cow

When you have a bad sleeper, you'll do anything if it works.
My 20 month old is up a million times a night if we try and make her go in her own cot all night by herself.
So now we have me, DH, DD and 12 week old DS in our king size bed. DD sleeps through - even when I'm up feeding DS.

Well the other guests way of settling their dc isn't what I would want from my 18mo and I find it quite annoying to read "you are lucky you had a good sleeper" - imo it isn't always down to luck. All babies have regressions, sleep odd or not at all when they are ill, go through development leaps or growth spurts that affect their sleep. I worked damn hard through all these periods with my kids to try and maintain some semblance of a routine. I didn't bring them into my bed because I didn't want to start a habit I'd eventually need to break (or one I knew I would be sick of within a few weeks).

These people who say " we did what we needed to do to get some sleep " for the most part are still collecting against their wishes at 3 or 4 yo; or they are still woken numerous times a night.

Imo it's because they didn't tackle the issue when it began. Anything for an easy life usually means you get stuck with that for way way longer than if it had been worked on when it started.

No way would I be lying pretending to be asleep next to my 19mo for daytime or night time sleep. However each to their own and it's these kinds of set ups that make me look back happily on the routines/sleep training and hard graft I put in 7 or 8 months prior specifically to avoid this situation.

My first and third have co-slept for a period of time at some point in their lives so far, my second hasn't (unless he has had a rare accident in bed, quietly changed his pjs and got in with us cheeky thing!)

Guess what they are 8, 4 and 3 and all usually sleep in their own beds no problem unless they are ill, had a bad dream etc.

@mammylamb same here with my two that co-slept! Don't worry it will change again soon.

1.5yrs is a baby to me. My 4 and 6 year old oten come in to bed with us, it is rare that we wake up with only 2 of us in there! This morning it was all 4. It's all fine, they're very cuddly kids and always have been, they like human contact.

I remember going away for a week with friends when our 1st was 6 months old. Friends hadn't had kids yet and wife was quite set in her ideas that we were.pandering to her by going to her when she cried and letting her sleep on us downstairs. I just got on with it, and laughed a little inside when her kids came along and she now cosleeps with them both at 3 yrs and 6 months.

But at 1.5 yrs this isn't worthy of comment, he's so young.

YABVU! You are lucky to have a good sleeper but all children are different and what works for your child, and your circumstances, would not necessarily work for theirs.
My DD isn't a great sleeper and we have tried everything. She sleeps well at the moment, but that doesn't mean it will last as she goes through phases.
I feel for your friends - going on holiday with someone who judges them and makes no effort to understand must have been very stressful. In their situation I would have done anything to try to get my child to sleep rather than battle through it too.

I think you might have a problem with relation and causation here. Because you observe a child who is a poor sleeper and a co-sleeper you assume that the former has caused the latter when it might just as well be the other way round, or no causation at all.

We always put dd to sleep in her own bed, but as often as not ended up with her in our bed after a few hours. I found I actually slept better that way; there was something very soothing about her quiet breathing not like dh who snores and thrashes around

As for "collecting against their wishes" at 3 or 4yo- why would you be collecting a 4yo? Haven't they got legs of their own? I let her come into our bed when she wanted to, didn't trouble me or wake me up, normal in my culture as far as I'm aware; it was only my (British) HV who foresaw difficulties.

"What I want to know is whether co-sleepers have a special breed of toddlers who don't rotate through 360 degrees every two hours or insist on adopting the position of a starfish."

What I want to know is whether other married/cohabiting women have a special breed of partner who doesn't snore/fart/move around in his sleep/try to hog the blanket. I get a far better quality of sleep when I have a cold and end up sleeping on the sofa- ostensibly as a courtesy to him (he's too tall to fit on it).

I suspect that in this society we are socialised to notice and resent any disturbance created by a small child, whereas noticing sleep disruption created by partner is not the correct thing and might be taken to signal problems in the relationship.