To ask how generous your OH's are and to wonder whether my DP is tight?!

[Frustrated01]

I'm aware this post will make me seem mercenery; but it's really not about money, more about attitude and thoughtfulness.

Together 4 years, live together in his house. He is a 'high earner' (earns 3 x my salary) He pays the mortgage (as its his house) and a couple of bills, I pay the rest of the bills, buy all the food and do all of the cooking and cleaning.

We take it in turns to pay when we go out, but it is mostly me as I always feel guilty that his outgoings for the house are probably more than mine.

Over the past couple of weeks, it has been an unfortunate coincidence that a lot of my friends have had big birthdays and nearly all of their partners have taken them away or for a weekend break or, TBH just been NICE and treated them.

All the girls at work seem to have lovely DPs who take them out to dinner on a Friday night or occasionally just do something nice for them, just because? I saw one of my friends the other night and she said that she is going to New York in November, for her 30th, as a present from her DP as he knows she's always wanted to go. I honestly just sat there thinking how lovely that was and how pigs would literally fly before my boyfriend ever did anything like that for me.

In the four years we have been going out, he has never once taken me for a night away, a weekend away or a holiday (and YES I have done all of these things for him before anyone says anything) If we go out for dinner or to the cinema or anything it's nearly always me that suggests it and then again everything is mostly split exactly 50/50

Every year for my birthday or Christmas he just says 'What do you want for your birthday/ Christmas?' I always feel bad saying anything really in case he thinks it's too expensive so normally just say 'A bottle of perfume' and there it is, wrapped up, a bottle of perfume. Don't get me wrong, it's what I asked for, but where is the thought?! Where is the romance?! And God forbid he should spend more than £50 on me.

Last year he wanted to go on a scuba diving holiday (we're both quite keen divers) I had just bought a new car and honestly just didn't have the money....so he went on his own. My friends and my mum blew up and said it was awful that he would rather have gone away on his own...than pay to bring his girlfriend of 4 years with him. I was upset that he went but at the end of the day, I didn't have the money so fine.

I got in the other night and told him about my friends surprise 30th New York trip, I gently 'joked' that he would never do anything like that for me and he said 'Well no, I haven't paid my mortgage off yet. Until I pay my mortgage off, extravagant gifts like that just wouldn't ever happen'

He is 30 and puts nearly £1500 per month into a savings account, he over pays on his mortgage by a vast amount each month and then the rest is his 'spending money'

I get that his approach is sensible, but for gods sake I'm not asking him to be 'extravagent' every month, I'm just saying that actually, once every couple of years it would be nice to be taken away for the weekend or for a night in a nice hotel. Just like I do for him on his birthday etc.

I know I sound unreasonable and princessey in this post. I promise I'm not, I'm just fed up of there not being any joy in life, of him going on about money all the time and banging on constantly about paying off his mortgage.

In every other way our relationship is great, he is an incredibly loving and supporting boyfriend and we are best friends. But there is just no surprise or romance- ever.

2 people in the last 2 days have asked me whether I'm sure I want to spend the rest of my life with this man, because they think although he is lovely that he is tight and mercenary.

I'm sitting here feeling really down and wondering whether he is totally right for me. But I really am not lying when I say that he is incredibly supporting and loving In other ways.

He priorities me over every one else in his life, he does anything and everything he can for me. He supports me in my hobby, comes to cheer on the side line in every single competition I've done, he fixes my car, massages my feet after a long day at work, listens to me for hours on end if I have a problem, he was my absolute rock last year when my dad was ill. He walks my dog, cooks dinner if I am on a late etc, listens endlessly to my girlfriends man problems when they come over and buys us all wine and chocolate for our girly nights, brings them tea and toast in the morning etc. Literally everything practical and emotional he is fine and a godsend, but he just doesn't make me feel 'special' in anyway. He is just one of those 'nice guys' that would literally do anything to help anyone, everyone says it and he is always going out of his way to help people efc which is one of the reasons why I love him.

I don't know. I guess that is the problem, the fact that I just don't feel that special to him, that everything he does for me I know he's probably done for his previous girlfriends and the fact that he went on holiday on his own, rather than pay to take me with him and won't ever spend any more than £50 on a present for me or reluctantly pays for meals out etc is just making it all feel a bit 'blah' and being surrounded by friends and colleagues who all seem to be wined and dined is making me feel even more meh.

SO, is he normal and my expectations are just too high? Or is he a bit tight?

Are your DPs generous?

I feel as I'm reading a different thread to others

how much would it cost you to live in a flat yourself and pay all the bills?

I agree household chores should be split equally or however you are happy with them. But I think it's awful to criticise him for overpaying his mortgage etc.

I don't spend lots on things and holidays either - early retirement means much more to me, and stuff doesn't make me happy anyway.

I think maybe the two of you want different things from a relationship.

Oh & the cooking & cleaning. He really is getting a bloody bargain isn't he. You don't have a brother do you?

Tell him his standards are WAY too low so he pulls up his socks & does more or he hires a cleaner.

Tell him you're no longer chief cook & bottle washer. He cooks three nights, you cook three nights & one night he takes you out or gets something delivered.

And be honest with yourself. Do you want to get married in order to have kids and jack in work to be a stay at home mum or do the part-time thing? Because this guy would be a mare to do that with.

Unless I was in a long term relationship, and there was a health related reason why DP wasn't working full time - I would not want to subsidise someone choice to only work part time hours

Zero hours contracts
Studying/training
No actual work in the area

Just a few reasons why someone might be only working part time and might not be able to contribute as much

I went through 18mths of job hunting in my early 20s.

My ex spent the last 12mths unemployed.

Would you really ditch someone for a run of such shitty luck?

YY Twatbadging. In my case DH did have health problems which got worse culminating in a heart attack two years after the supermarket laid him off due to ill health.

But i agree with you Twatbadging. I cant believe ppl are asking the OP if she intends to close the gap. If everyone had that attitude there would be no care workers to pay £13k a year to so elderly relatives can be cared for so these people dont have to take time off from their £50k plus a year to do it themselves.

A lot of the low paid jobs are what is propping things up and yet ppl doing them get this shitty attitude.

SOMEONE will still be doing this job. Ive seen threads on here where people in these jobs have been told they shouldnt have children if they cant afford them. Now it seems that they dont deserve a relationship either

Before he met me (hes 23 years my senior) my DH was a welder /supervisor for a co. that made lifts That was full time nights. Couldnt carry on due to ill health.

Hes now retired.

I'm rather confused. OP earns £1,600 and her outgoings are £500 (would be the same if she lived alone, if not more !) so she has £1,100 left over. That's a lot of money to have left spare which could have been saving. Say she allowed herself £200 a month of 'fun money' , she could have saved £43,200 in these last 4 years and can continue to save more and then buy her own flat or something so she has an asset.

I agree with other posters, your boyfriend owes you nothing and it is your choice to spend the amount you do on him. Give yourself a monthly allowance and if he wants to do something you can't afford, tell him you don't have the money so can't join him or he has to pay. You must be poor at money management if you only had £3k savings but are left with over £1k per month .

TBH if I was him , I wouldn't get married either. Build and protect your assets.

All the underpaid care workers are not going to benefit from the OP's imagined or real complacency. Being poor isn't a virtue.

Spice 22, but if you wanted a long-term relationship and dc with the other person in this situation, then would you not marry, or if you don't believe in marriage, 'pool finances' in some other way?

I think Cafecreme is right - where there is a disparity in earnings the higher earner has to decide whether s/he is happy to share more or less equally in the long term (not two weeks after meeting, obviously!). If not I don't see that it's easy to make it work long-term.
Op, trying to work out what I would advise if you were my dd. It is tricky. This is unromantic of me but re marriage, do women have to wait for a proposal? You've told him you want to get married - why can't he just say yes or no now, rather than being set a deadline to propose? And if the answer is no, that is a major incompatibility - but at least you know straight away.

Ireally No I don't think I would marry if our financial positions were so different. You can still have children and a long term relationship without being married. You can still provide and set your finances in a way that mean your children are looked after if the high earner should pass. I wouldn't do what the OPs bf did regarding the holiday, but I probably wouldn't marry either if I were him.

Having said that , he does seem open to marriage - just doesn't want to spend a lot of money on a wedding. OP why isn't the registry good enough for you ? If marriage is what you are after , you may have to compromise so you both get what you want (marriage and save money).

Ireally is also correct on the proposal front. Just do it and get your answer. You've given him an ultimatum so it's not like you're worried about tradition/romance.

"In general, woman choose lower paid career tracks. There is nothing to prevent woman from making the same choices men do with regards to earning power. We have to take a bit of responsibility for ourselves and aim for high pay!"

Women also study subjects that lead to lower-paying jobs. In this case OP is in science, but I presume she's in academia or non-profit. She earns a good wage imo and I don't see the problem with that. I certainly don't understand the poster who called her 'poor'.

That's interesting spice - the problem for op in this situation though is that if they don't get married she may have no right to a share of the house if they split up (I think - I'm not an expert I stress) which if so is a vulnerable position.

So on that basis I think I would hope that a dd did not have dc if in op's position, without either marriage or some legal arrangement re the property.

Op if you do plan to get married to dp it would be worth having some discussions about how you will manage money generally - eg will dp/dh pay for you to go on holiday? how will you balance financial priorities eg days out with dc (if you want them - I'm not sure if you have said!) re paying the mortgage? will you have a joint account? At the moment you do have different approaches, and it's a really good idea to discuss this, maybe even with a 3P relationship person, before rather than after marriage (and even more so before having dc). Unromantic I know.

Of course you could argue why should the lower earner when not married share in the other partner's money? I would not marry another boyfriend as I don't want my children's inheritance going to a man on my death or divorce. lenty of higher earners feel the same way.

Ireally ils right that these things should be discussed. It is one reason most religious will make you attend per marriage courses - not to force God down your necks but to make you talk about things other than silloy white dresses and instead talk about your core beliefs, views on money, who will work, types of schools, if you would have an abortion with a disabled child and all that kind of thing which really matters before you agree to marry someone and people tend not to talk enough about.

She earns a good wage imo and I don't see the problem with that. I certainly don't understand the poster who called her 'poor'.

If you're referring to my comment

Being poor isn't a virtue.

I was speaking of Helena's irrelevant reference to low-paid care workers. Sorry if that wasn't clear OP.

I'm with you Spice
Also they aren't married yet, if he wants to get married he will probably see the money differently
But there isn't anything to stop OP saving and investing and if he wants his money separate, I'm fine with that. I was the same in relationships. Only thing that didn't arise was holidays because I don't do holidays much and had relatives in NY so that was the bulk of my hols in the last relationship.

I still feel oP must be saving a lot compared to if she was renting.

If you want to get married, why don't you propose to him? I can't understand why one of the most important decisions in life is still so often left to the man while the woman wastes her fertile years waiting. (Not that I would marry him if I were you OP).

Agreed, 2016B once you have dc it can certainly make sense not to remarry if you want to protect your assets for the dc - though even with an unmarried partner there may be a dependency claim re inheritance. May be safer not even to live with the new partner.

I think there are different issues though if you're 'starting out' and maybe planning dc. Put bluntly, if the parties have different incomes/asset holdings, the higher earner/asset holder risks losing some of that on divorce.

So the higher earner does have to decide if s/he is prepared to take that risk for the sake of a 'conventional' family set up. And if not, the lower earner has to decide whether s/he is prepared to live with that - which may depend on agreements re savings, interests in property etc.
Coincidentally there is another thread at the moment on a similar issue where the op is unmarried.

It does seem as though awareness is growing which can only be a good thing - of the implications of both marriage and non-marriage.

Frustrated01 so impressed you had the chat. Sounded like you handled it tactfully. Completely take back my previous princessy comment which i made thinking you potentially compared to friends "grass is greener" for them. I really hope it works out but sounds like he needs to meet you halfway. Best of luck

Well done on talking to him.

I think you're forcing a square peg into a round hole, but it's your peg to force.

Good luck.

if that’s what I wanted to enable me to save more money a month
So he still hasn't acknowledged that the situation is unbalanced in his favour....he's still making out that he's doing you a favour.
and the passive aggressive 'huffy' thing - so disrespectful to minimise your feelings like this.
He got what he wanted from his tactics - you backing off and accepting the status quo and thinking you are being unreasonable.

he has had the hoover out, but not nearly enough as it should be, hence me having to do it too
Yea, know that game too. Do a shit job consistently enough, frustrate the other person til they get to the point 'may as well do it myself'.

He was sheepish for a while after as he knew I was livid
He knew exactly what he was doing the whole time. I think he just knows how to manipulate you into letting him get away with things.

As for saying that you'd have to pay £500 if you were living elsewhere - well HE would have to pay a lot more if he were living on his own!
Since you're supposed to be a couple, you should both be benefiting from living together.

I would add up everything you pay for and show him, I think it will more than he thinks and make him realise he has some making up to do.

OP says that dinner, cinema etc is always her suggestion
So maybe he'd go out a lot less and actually it wouldn't make much diffeence to him financially
Op is paying for food, leccy and sky I think she said
If this guy is like me he will be on £5 magic chickens so depending on how much they go out, he may not find her contribution significant at all

Esp if the next thing is to spend on a wedding

I think the real cost benefit here is to the op who is living rent and mortgage free.

As for saying that you'd have to pay £500 if you were living elsewhere - well HE would have to pay a lot more if he were living on his own!
Since you're supposed to be a couple, you should both be benefiting from living together.

The OP benefits more than the OP's boyfriend- her contribution to their union is mostly variable expenses.

I pay for the Electricity and the Sky and Internet and buy the food.

This I think you're forcing a square peg into a round hole, but it's your peg to force. is possibly the most relevant comment on this thread.

It depends what op's rent would be elsewhere i suppose, and whether she could buy somewhere herself, (possibly with a friend?) whether she is better off living with dp under the current arrangement.

But in a way that is not the issue. Cutting to the chase, are there really just these relevant questions, 1. Does op want to be with dp long term? 2. If so, does dp want to be with op long term? and 3. If so, can they reach an agreed approach to money, dc, marriage, present giving etc (the different languages of love thing) which has the potential to enable them to live in a reasonable degree of harmony? If i had a dd aged 30 who had been with a dp for 4 yrs, i would think that if dp couldn't give a 'yes' to question 2 pretty speedily, i would hope she'd jump ship (but probably wouldn't say that to her!). And the same if i had a ds in the same position, in fact.

so interesting
friend of mine is about to start dating again in her 40s and the first thing I said to her was "don't subsidise anyone" and she said "oh don't worry I won't" - famous last words, she's fallen victim to "It's just because he's pretty" - before.

You can never get the money back and like me, she's looking to pay off the mortgage early and retire a bit early.

This "languages of love" thing is new to me. Interesting. I did once say to a boyfriend "you don't treat me" but I was 18 FFS!