To ask how generous your OH's are and to wonder whether my DP is tight?!

[Frustrated01]

I'm aware this post will make me seem mercenery; but it's really not about money, more about attitude and thoughtfulness.

Together 4 years, live together in his house. He is a 'high earner' (earns 3 x my salary) He pays the mortgage (as its his house) and a couple of bills, I pay the rest of the bills, buy all the food and do all of the cooking and cleaning.

We take it in turns to pay when we go out, but it is mostly me as I always feel guilty that his outgoings for the house are probably more than mine.

Over the past couple of weeks, it has been an unfortunate coincidence that a lot of my friends have had big birthdays and nearly all of their partners have taken them away or for a weekend break or, TBH just been NICE and treated them.

All the girls at work seem to have lovely DPs who take them out to dinner on a Friday night or occasionally just do something nice for them, just because? I saw one of my friends the other night and she said that she is going to New York in November, for her 30th, as a present from her DP as he knows she's always wanted to go. I honestly just sat there thinking how lovely that was and how pigs would literally fly before my boyfriend ever did anything like that for me.

In the four years we have been going out, he has never once taken me for a night away, a weekend away or a holiday (and YES I have done all of these things for him before anyone says anything) If we go out for dinner or to the cinema or anything it's nearly always me that suggests it and then again everything is mostly split exactly 50/50

Every year for my birthday or Christmas he just says 'What do you want for your birthday/ Christmas?' I always feel bad saying anything really in case he thinks it's too expensive so normally just say 'A bottle of perfume' and there it is, wrapped up, a bottle of perfume. Don't get me wrong, it's what I asked for, but where is the thought?! Where is the romance?! And God forbid he should spend more than £50 on me.

Last year he wanted to go on a scuba diving holiday (we're both quite keen divers) I had just bought a new car and honestly just didn't have the money....so he went on his own. My friends and my mum blew up and said it was awful that he would rather have gone away on his own...than pay to bring his girlfriend of 4 years with him. I was upset that he went but at the end of the day, I didn't have the money so fine.

I got in the other night and told him about my friends surprise 30th New York trip, I gently 'joked' that he would never do anything like that for me and he said 'Well no, I haven't paid my mortgage off yet. Until I pay my mortgage off, extravagant gifts like that just wouldn't ever happen'

He is 30 and puts nearly £1500 per month into a savings account, he over pays on his mortgage by a vast amount each month and then the rest is his 'spending money'

I get that his approach is sensible, but for gods sake I'm not asking him to be 'extravagent' every month, I'm just saying that actually, once every couple of years it would be nice to be taken away for the weekend or for a night in a nice hotel. Just like I do for him on his birthday etc.

I know I sound unreasonable and princessey in this post. I promise I'm not, I'm just fed up of there not being any joy in life, of him going on about money all the time and banging on constantly about paying off his mortgage.

In every other way our relationship is great, he is an incredibly loving and supporting boyfriend and we are best friends. But there is just no surprise or romance- ever.

2 people in the last 2 days have asked me whether I'm sure I want to spend the rest of my life with this man, because they think although he is lovely that he is tight and mercenary.

I'm sitting here feeling really down and wondering whether he is totally right for me. But I really am not lying when I say that he is incredibly supporting and loving In other ways.

He priorities me over every one else in his life, he does anything and everything he can for me. He supports me in my hobby, comes to cheer on the side line in every single competition I've done, he fixes my car, massages my feet after a long day at work, listens to me for hours on end if I have a problem, he was my absolute rock last year when my dad was ill. He walks my dog, cooks dinner if I am on a late etc, listens endlessly to my girlfriends man problems when they come over and buys us all wine and chocolate for our girly nights, brings them tea and toast in the morning etc. Literally everything practical and emotional he is fine and a godsend, but he just doesn't make me feel 'special' in anyway. He is just one of those 'nice guys' that would literally do anything to help anyone, everyone says it and he is always going out of his way to help people efc which is one of the reasons why I love him.

I don't know. I guess that is the problem, the fact that I just don't feel that special to him, that everything he does for me I know he's probably done for his previous girlfriends and the fact that he went on holiday on his own, rather than pay to take me with him and won't ever spend any more than £50 on a present for me or reluctantly pays for meals out etc is just making it all feel a bit 'blah' and being surrounded by friends and colleagues who all seem to be wined and dined is making me feel even more meh.

SO, is he normal and my expectations are just too high? Or is he a bit tight?

Are your DPs generous?

Read mummur's [ost above as that is very helpful indeed. It was the same with us - no interest i n giving and receiving presents. We don't even give anything at Christmas in this family and birthdays are a non event but we are happy, loving and all get on really well. Different families and cultures value different things. I was given a spa day by somone and I obviously thanked them but for me that's an utter theft of my time - nothing worse and I discreeting gave it away, ditto most gifts. I would rather someone just said happy birthday and was careful with their own money.

The OP is pissed off that her higher earning boyfriend doesn't pay for her to go on expensive holidays, and "only" buys her £50 bottles of perfume for her birthday. There's nothing wrong with a nice bottle of perfume for a birthday present!! And no one is entitled to a free holiday

You really dont get why OP is upset do you? Its not about having a "free" holiday - its about being in a long term committed relationship where its natural and normal for couples to go on holiday together - you know do "couples" things.

I agree to the extent that DH certainly was not on my mortgage nor did he pay towards the house until we were married and he put the equity from his flat into it. We still have a legal agreement that says the first £100,000 of the house is mine and the rest will be divided equally if we split. Doubt it would hold water if really pushed but it states clearly what we both brought into the relationship.
I certainly would not have put him on the mortgage/deeds unless we were married and that was in place.
But after 4 years, I think OP needs a way forward- she wants to be married. He doesn't. That is the real issue.

My DH is a "give the shirt off his back" type and we both prioritise each other's security and wellbeing ahead of self-protection of finances.

I couldn't be in a relationship where either he or I amass and ring fencing money in a bank account, over pay on a personal mortgage because of having so much spare cash swilling around, but are happy to have the other person paying the monthly outgoing like a flat share. As for going on holidays and leave the other person behind, it just wouldn't happen.

After 3, 4, 5 years of being a couple, if the ring fencing of finances is still that strong, I personally wouldn't continue in the relationship, but everyone has their own threshold of pain. It wouldn't have got beyond a year of tight waddery.

it sounds like a relationship that is worryingly out of kilter.

OP, you may have made it clear that you expect marriage but he doesn't want to get married. How many years are you going to spend hoping he'll change his mind?

OP your latest post reconfirms to me that you need to consider your financial future. That's a decent salary. It's more than DH and I were earning when we were FTBs. Things are trickier these days but with a different partner earning the same as you, you could be buying your own place. Don't fritter your time and salary away paying for the Sky box and gifts and doing all the cleaning like a poor relation. Don't let this man stop you achieving your own financial security, which is more than doable on your salary. Some people raise a whole family on a lot less as a single earner. You don't need to be beholden to him, feel like a second class citizen or cede your own financial future to his.

Please, please update us on what he says re mortgage. Unlike some PPs I don't think this is about expecting him to gift you equity. It's about changing the set up to protect both your finances, not his at the expense of yours. (Plus the holiday thing is mean.)

Hmmm, only read first few pages, but here's my two pennorth.

He sounds tight fisted and insensitive. Paying off the mortgage is incredibly worthy, but Christ...you only live once.

There has to be a little sprinkle of glitter in life, else really...WTF is the point?

We know people very like the OP's bloke. Sensible, oh so very sensible...frugal to the point of obsession, coupons carefully collected, buying slightly out of date food to freeze...cheap holidays in uncomfortable accommodation.

Yet, they're both on £50K salaries.

Okay, so their mortgage will shortly be paid off (while still in their 30s) but their lives have been so bleddy dull and dour. Where are the rich memories? The giggles? The high times & wild times?

They haven't lived...they have just existed.

And, once the mortgage is paid off, will they really throw caution to the wind and order a take out once in a while? Or spend more than £10 on a pair of shoes...?

Somehow I very much doubt it.

I think the OP should inform her DP that she won't be cleaning his house any longer.

I think your DH should pay for a cleaner. He can afford it.

But obviously if you do it it's free

He has said he doesn't want to marry. You have said you do. Aside from all the money issues, how do you propose to deal with this issue?

He will not marry you because that will mean sharing his assets. End of. I couldn't give a shit about perfume or expensive gifts but I could not tolerate a man who used me to secure his financial future (but didn't care about mine) and do his cleaning.

There really is a lack of humanity about people who are accusing the OP of being "after his money".

Are you really so dense that you cannot imagine any other motive for the OP's disquiet about this relationship? Because if so, then that tells us all something about your worship of money. You are projecting your own values onto the OP.

I don't know why I'm asking, the thing about being stupid, is that you don't know you're stupid.

OP I've just clocked that you are 30. Do you want children? Because if you do, you need to get out of this relationship now and find someone to have them with. It might take 2 or 3 years to find someone suitable, then it might take another 2 or 3 years to settle down with them and at the average age of 38, fertility plummets.

This man has had 4 years of your fertile years. You can't afford to give him any more free. If you even vaguely want kids, get out of this relationship because all the time you're in it, it's stopping you from finding someone better than this miser.

Jesus OP, this guy is seriously taking you for a ride! You are paying to live with him!

You think you are getting a good deal He's paying off his mortgage, you are gaining no equity whatsoever. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.

You own nothing. He owns a house and is paying it off. You are helping him. Your money, his house.

He doesn't want to marry you, and he doesn't want to go scuba diving with you.

What more do you need to know?

And he's freeloading off your free labour.

Fuxache

He sounds tight OP.

I hate all this 'well you have no kids' nonsense. There surely comes a point where you want a mutually supportive, adult, partnership whether kids are part of the equation or not? DP and I have been together for more than 13 years. We are not yet married and don't have kids. If he was fucking off on holiday on his own because I couldn't pay half, he wouldn't be DP for much longer. Admittedly we are slightly different because we bought together, but we've both been in the position of earning more and we adjust our contributions accordingly.

For those who do think 50/50 regardless of income is 'fair' if no marriage / no kids, at what point do you think these misers suddenly change their tune? Yes, you might be protected in the event of a divorce, but I sincerely doubt a tightarse like the OP's DP will suddenly share all their income upon existing the registry office or if and when OP gives birth.

I accept house deeds are a bit different if one person has already paid a lot in. Again though, whilst you might not put someone on the deeds in this circumstance, surely the loving thing to do would be to pay a bit more general expenses to allow your lower earning partner to develop their own investments?

Key for me is 'how big is this ask'. For me, paying a few hundred pounds extra is nothing. For DP when earning less, asking for 50% would've left him with a radically different standard of living to me (clothes, holidays, entertainment etc.). We both worked similar hours in professional jobs and we're pushing towards the same goal, so in what way would it be fair to expect him to go for beans on toast whilst I eat fillet steak?

I congratulate him on his frugal financial sense, but taking that trip without you was just not acceptable. It'd be one thing if you had no interest in it and he made it a "boy's holiday," but you wanted to go, and he wouldn't let you unless you paid your way. That's just cheap.

I don't think you are mercenary at all; I think at 30 you are sensibly looking to the future and seeing a complete lack of security.
This man is not your partner, he is your landlord, and apart from a sexual relationship he gives you little that you wouldn't have from a good flatmate: companionship. Everything you do socially you pay your share; you do the majority of the household chores, and you fund his savings by relieving him of living expenses. Wine and chocolates and tea and toast in bed are done to impress your girlfriends; anything that touches his purse is reserved for himself.
The meanness over the holiday(he could have stayed behind or gone later when you could have afforded it) and his response to your wedding suggestions indicate his true feelings; listen to your mum and your friends. Sorry.

He supports me in my hobby, comes to cheer on the side line in every single competition I've done, he fixes my car, massages my feet after a long day at work, listens to me for hours on end if I have a problem, he was my absolute rock last year when my dad was ill. He walks my dog, cooks dinner if I am on a late etc, listens endlessly to my girlfriends man problems when they come over and buys us all wine and chocolate for our girly nights, brings them tea and toast in the morning etc. Literally everything practical and emotional he is fine and a godsend, but he just doesn't make me feel 'special' in anyway.

If those things don't make you feel special, then a token night at a hotel for your birthday isn't going to do so. It sounds as if he's there for you when it really counts.

But then, I might be the wrong person to judge. Presents given because it's expected at Christmas etc don't matter to me. It's the things that are done and the little things given to me because he thinks I might like it "just because I want to" that have genuine meaning for me.

I think the OP's boyfriend has had a fairly hard time on this thread. The scuba holiday didn't cover him in glory, it's true.

But honestly, how many threads do you see here on MN about the disaster that is wrought through poor money management? The OP's boyfriend needs a bit of a kick in the ass, but being a bit cheap when you're young and don't have kids so you can pay off the mortgage and build a nest egg is on balance good.

The paragraph about all the things that he does for you (and your friends) is pretty telling.

I'd have a blunt conversation about the importance of generosity and see if you can find some middle ground.

I don't think you're being at all unreasonable or princessy that you accuse yourself of in your OP.

'I know I sound unreasonable and princessey in this post. I promise I'm not, I'm just fed up of there not being any joy in life, of him going on about money all the time and banging on constantly about paying off his mortgage.'

That says it all doesn't it? And let's not forget, in his words, it is 'his' mortgage and will be 'his' house when he's paid for it. He's planning nothing for the future for the both of you. There doesn't seem to be a sharing of much at all - money, holidays, plans, marriage, future dreams...

You're four years in and that's where you're at. I don't think he's compatible with you which is most important point and tbh not sure who he'd be compatible with, as he isn't interested in a fundamental of partnership: building a life together.

I think it's over to Op time.
Now that you've had time for the dust to settle and let the worldly wisdom sink in.

Lots of varied comments here but they mostly fall into two categories. Get out and get a better more secure future for yourself.
Or
What a fine, upstanding fellow he is. Applaud his determination to get on in life and make his financial future secure for himself.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I do think you need to have 'the talk'.

Where is this relationship going?

How can you make your future secure?

Where do yo see yourself in five years time?

Where do you see yourself aged 40.

I think you are on the cusp of some pretty soul searching decisions that will have far reaching consequences for your future .

At the moment this man is getting richer by the month, meanwhile all you have to show for your hard work is a gleaming house that belongs to someone else and a second hand car

And a life that lacks glitter.

Salutary tale. Girl of similar age with live-in boyfriend of 7 years; desperate to settle down so she scraped money for deposit to buy flat they were renting. He walked out, as he 'didn't want to commit, we are happy as we are'; she then discovered that all the joint purchases they had made from their savings over the seven years had all been paid for via his credit card and all the receipts, carefully collected, were in his name; she didn't even have part shares in the bed she was sleeping in. He took the lot back to mummy.(Three years later she is happily married to Prince Charming, worth ten of ex- boyfriend financially and emotionally.)
OP's 'partner'/landlord sounds pretty calculating to me; everything financially secure for him, not even security of tenure for her.

So if he doesn't want to get married. Where does he see your future? Is he thinking about it at all or does he just want the mortgage paid off?

What happens if you're on maternity leave? You won't be earning, will he still expect you to pay the bills? What about feeding and clothing your children? Will you work part time and will he still be expecting you to contribute as much as you are now? Are you ok with him being able to save a fortune and you having nothing? These are conversations you need to be having with him.

YY Buggers Muddle.............its almost as if people without kids have less value

And im willing to bet if the OP had waited and posted a few years from now AFTER kids had come along a lot of the posters criticizing her on here would be the first to jump in saying "Well there must have been signs he was financially abusive surely! "

GoblinLittleOwl
A salutary tale.
I hope the OP reads your post.
Her 'dp' does not sound as if he cares a lot for her.