To ask how generous your OH's are and to wonder whether my DP is tight?!

[Frustrated01]

I'm aware this post will make me seem mercenery; but it's really not about money, more about attitude and thoughtfulness.

Together 4 years, live together in his house. He is a 'high earner' (earns 3 x my salary) He pays the mortgage (as its his house) and a couple of bills, I pay the rest of the bills, buy all the food and do all of the cooking and cleaning.

We take it in turns to pay when we go out, but it is mostly me as I always feel guilty that his outgoings for the house are probably more than mine.

Over the past couple of weeks, it has been an unfortunate coincidence that a lot of my friends have had big birthdays and nearly all of their partners have taken them away or for a weekend break or, TBH just been NICE and treated them.

All the girls at work seem to have lovely DPs who take them out to dinner on a Friday night or occasionally just do something nice for them, just because? I saw one of my friends the other night and she said that she is going to New York in November, for her 30th, as a present from her DP as he knows she's always wanted to go. I honestly just sat there thinking how lovely that was and how pigs would literally fly before my boyfriend ever did anything like that for me.

In the four years we have been going out, he has never once taken me for a night away, a weekend away or a holiday (and YES I have done all of these things for him before anyone says anything) If we go out for dinner or to the cinema or anything it's nearly always me that suggests it and then again everything is mostly split exactly 50/50

Every year for my birthday or Christmas he just says 'What do you want for your birthday/ Christmas?' I always feel bad saying anything really in case he thinks it's too expensive so normally just say 'A bottle of perfume' and there it is, wrapped up, a bottle of perfume. Don't get me wrong, it's what I asked for, but where is the thought?! Where is the romance?! And God forbid he should spend more than £50 on me.

Last year he wanted to go on a scuba diving holiday (we're both quite keen divers) I had just bought a new car and honestly just didn't have the money....so he went on his own. My friends and my mum blew up and said it was awful that he would rather have gone away on his own...than pay to bring his girlfriend of 4 years with him. I was upset that he went but at the end of the day, I didn't have the money so fine.

I got in the other night and told him about my friends surprise 30th New York trip, I gently 'joked' that he would never do anything like that for me and he said 'Well no, I haven't paid my mortgage off yet. Until I pay my mortgage off, extravagant gifts like that just wouldn't ever happen'

He is 30 and puts nearly £1500 per month into a savings account, he over pays on his mortgage by a vast amount each month and then the rest is his 'spending money'

I get that his approach is sensible, but for gods sake I'm not asking him to be 'extravagent' every month, I'm just saying that actually, once every couple of years it would be nice to be taken away for the weekend or for a night in a nice hotel. Just like I do for him on his birthday etc.

I know I sound unreasonable and princessey in this post. I promise I'm not, I'm just fed up of there not being any joy in life, of him going on about money all the time and banging on constantly about paying off his mortgage.

In every other way our relationship is great, he is an incredibly loving and supporting boyfriend and we are best friends. But there is just no surprise or romance- ever.

2 people in the last 2 days have asked me whether I'm sure I want to spend the rest of my life with this man, because they think although he is lovely that he is tight and mercenary.

I'm sitting here feeling really down and wondering whether he is totally right for me. But I really am not lying when I say that he is incredibly supporting and loving In other ways.

He priorities me over every one else in his life, he does anything and everything he can for me. He supports me in my hobby, comes to cheer on the side line in every single competition I've done, he fixes my car, massages my feet after a long day at work, listens to me for hours on end if I have a problem, he was my absolute rock last year when my dad was ill. He walks my dog, cooks dinner if I am on a late etc, listens endlessly to my girlfriends man problems when they come over and buys us all wine and chocolate for our girly nights, brings them tea and toast in the morning etc. Literally everything practical and emotional he is fine and a godsend, but he just doesn't make me feel 'special' in anyway. He is just one of those 'nice guys' that would literally do anything to help anyone, everyone says it and he is always going out of his way to help people efc which is one of the reasons why I love him.

I don't know. I guess that is the problem, the fact that I just don't feel that special to him, that everything he does for me I know he's probably done for his previous girlfriends and the fact that he went on holiday on his own, rather than pay to take me with him and won't ever spend any more than £50 on a present for me or reluctantly pays for meals out etc is just making it all feel a bit 'blah' and being surrounded by friends and colleagues who all seem to be wined and dined is making me feel even more meh.

SO, is he normal and my expectations are just too high? Or is he a bit tight?

Are your DPs generous?

YY Buggers Muddle.............its almost as if people without kids have less value

No, but before children you each have the same potential to earn and are on an equal footing.

After children, it is usually the woman who has taken the hit of low earnings on ML and has gone back part time or is leaving early to pick up from uses art, or take time off with sick kids.

Hence after children the 50/50 set up doesn't work.

The 50/50 set up doesnt always work if there are no kids. 15 years ago i was working full time nights in an office and DH was part time in a supermarket.

I paid the rent because it was the bigger bill. He paid the council tax because it was the smaller bill. I paid the food bill as well as i was earning more.

I could not have insisted on 50/50 It would have made me feel like i was being a real shit.

Im childfree by choice.

Oh dear god, he sounds like a joy sucking, miserable, tight arsed git - and that's being nice.

I bet it's costing you a lot more, proportionally, than him.

I can't really understand why you've been with him so long or done so many nice things for him.

OP, I have read your list of your OH's attributes. To be honest, it doesn't sound like he's providing you with anything more than a good house mate could give you...except you're paying the lion's share of the rent/bills.

What you have described doesn't sound intimate, or fun, or passionate, or...well special in any way.

It sounds like a rather dry and dusty business arrangement. Cautious, earnest and unfairly weighted in your OH's favour.

It is perfectly possible to be with someone who is quite sensible about money, but also likes to live a little, and have the occasional whimsical splurge. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I haven't read the full thread but I just wanted to say you should value yourself more. Don't just ask for some crappy gift as that's all you think you're 'worth'. Ask for something expensive that you'd really like. And never offer to pay for something like a meal out when he's saving over £1500 a month! I wish women weren't so worried about being 'princesses'. Men should value their partners.

He does sound tight and I don't think men like that ever change. I know a few in their 60s who've always been that way. I also wouldn't be taking him away for weekends etc if he never reciprocates. Plus he's only paying off his mortgage for HIM, you don't really benefit as you're providing him with a clean and tidy house, no bills to pay and he gets all the capital appreciation on the house as well as the fact that he will probably be mortgage free at a young age. You won't have a foot on the property ladder and will have spent time living frugally for ages without getting ANY of the benefits he will get. Probably worth seriously considering getting out now OP.

"you're living in his house, so if you split up, you'll have nothing"

Presumably she'll have the money she's saved from not paying rent.

"before children you each have the same potential to earn and are on an equal footing"

Well no, some people have much more earning power than others

"you're living in his house, so if you split up, you'll have nothing"

Presumably she'll have the money she's saved from not paying rent."

a. not if she has to spend to keep up with him in other ways and
b. even if she has saved from not paying rent a lot of places are now getting iffy about giving mortgages to the over 40s now.

Ask Basil is absolutely correct. There is a real lack of humanity from some posters.

A lot of men who "don't believe in marriage" change their mind when someone they deem worthy of them comes along. Usually the one after you, when you have wasted many years trying to earn their approval.

Also being around a mean person gets you down in the end. You just know they are counting the cost of everything!

"I wish women weren't so worried about being 'princesses'. Men should value their partners."

Because this isn't the 1950's and PEOPLE should value their partners.

Cheers for that helpful comment logical. I believe the op to be a woman and I've never heard a man being accused of being a 'princess' in this context. But yeah obviously people should value their partners. This thread is about a man who doesn't seem to be too bothered about his - scuba diving holiday being a case in point.

We have several male friends 'who didn't believe in marriage' and were in long term relationships.

Funnily enough, all three of them finally split with their long term partners and ended up married within the next 3 years to someone else.

Men aren't afraid of commitment. They're just afraid of commitment to the wrong woman.

Because this isn't the 1950's and PEOPLE should value their partners.

Interestingly, no one has asked the OP if she intends on closing the gap between their salaries at some point, there's just been a lot of discussion of how they'll strike a money-sharing arrangement if and when they do marry/have children.

Don't get me wrong, I think money should be merged in a real partnership- but that's just my opinion. There are many to be had.

If the roles were reversed, I expect it might be different.

Apple, it's my main thing - if women could earn as much as and more than men they don't need to worry about all these things. It is hugely empowering to earn more money. Always try to out earn your man and you cannot go too far wrong and you can protect your children better. Men often piss money up the wall or spend it on wine women and song and women tend to educate their children with it and invest it in the next generation. it is why in Africa charities try to give women loans for small businesses rather than gifts of money to men. Mind you the man here sounds quite sensible with money, there are no children and they are not married and whoever ends up with him will do a lot better than someone who is with a man spending every penny he earns who never saves.

No, but before children you each have the same potential to earn and are on an equal footing.

Agreed, but in this case OP's DP earns triple her salary.

And the op says.......?

I had a chat with him last night, tentatively. He got a bit defensive with me implying he’s tight etc. He said wherever I live I’d have to pay bills and it would come to about £500 a month (which is true) He then huffed and said he’d pay all household bills and mortgage if that’s what I wanted to enable me to save more money a month. I said don’t be silly I don’t want to not pay my way and be beholden to someone. TBH I’m not sure if he actually would’ve gone through with it if I had said yes.

I brought up the cleaning, he claims he does hoover the house when I’m not there a lot and he takes the bins out (he does as that’s the one job I hate and refuse to do) Occasionally I have got back home and he has had the hoover out, but not nearly enough as it should be, hence me having to do it too. At the end of the day, he is messy and I can’t stand mess. His house wasn’t overly clean or tidy when I met him, certainly not horrendous but you could definitely tell it was a man living on his own! I put up with it for years because I refused to play the role of cleaner/ housewife but when I moved in I didn’t want to live in a house that was dirty or messy so I just clean because if I wait for him to do it, it’d be disgusting before it got done. That’s the thing, he WILL clean but in his own time when he wants to, and that is often when it’s all got a bit manky.

I brought up the marriage thing. He said he wasn’t against the idea of marrying totally, but that at the moment he would rather put money into his mortgage than to a wedding. I said I don’t necessarily want a big wedding (Though I admit I wouldn’t be happy with a shotgun job) and that I would be willing to pay half obviously and even if we just had a small 5-8k wedding, between the 2 of us we could easily save that within 18 months.

I said that I have made a deadline in my head that I want a proposal or some form of commitment by (I have) and if nothing happens by then I’m off. He looked a bit panic stricken, but I don’t know.

I will go through with my ‘threat’ I can’t afford to hang around for much longer waiting for him. He has 6 months (I have a birthday in Feb and it will also be our anniversary in Feb too!) to get his act together and decide whether he wants to commit.

I mean it when I say that he IS lovely and supportive in other ways. But I honestly am not sure he’ll ever change re money. He just doesn’t value ‘things’ or holidays or experiences or anything like that, he is incredibly sensible and tunnel visioned when it comes to money and is obsessed with paying his mortgage off. Which IS good to an extent, but it is abnormal how much he worries about money. He is in a very secure job and is in a very strong position financially in terms of savings etc. If god forbid he ended up losing his job tomorrow, from knowing the amount of savings he has, he wouldn’t need to work for at least 2 years before he had to start worrying. I do wish he’d just loosen up and live a bit but I’m not holding out much hope.

Don’t get me wrong, on a night out etc he is a lot of fun and we all have a laugh, he’s not tight at all in terms of buying people (including me) drinks etc. His friends are great, my friends DO really like him (just a couple have said they wouldn’t be happy with how he is with money but in fairness their partners are VERY, VERY generous)

The scuba diving thing I almost left him for. He apologised and offered not to go, but I said no go. He was sheepish for a while after as he knew I was livid. I don’t think he’d ever do anything like that again.

In terms of earnings; I have to be realisitic, he has a VERY professional job. I too have a professional job but it is a job that is done more for the love of it than it ever paying massively (sciences) I earn £25k at the moment and that will hopefully be rising to nearer £30k in the next 2 years but in all honesty, it’s never going to earn a vast amount more than that and in all honesty, I don’t want to spend my life competing re salaries with my partner. I will never catch him up, unless I worked 3 jobs for the rest of my life or something.

Of course we are only reading this thread about your situation and you are living it, but I can't help but feel asking for a marriage commitment from your boyfriend will do nothing to solve this basic incompatibility you have. He is very, very averse to spending money and would prefer to do without (thus missing out on fun and good times).

You said he sucks the joy out of life. Why on earth ask for a proposal from someone who you describe that way? Better people are out there. People you wouldn't have huge misgivings about before you've even married them.

Sorry if harsh. But this feels like an instance where someone is walking right into a big mistake.

I wouldn't want to marry someone I had to wrestle a proposal from. I agree with ovenchips. You are incompatible.

15 years ago i was working full time nights in an office and DH was part time in a supermarket.
I could not have insisted on 50/50 It would have made me feel like i was being a real shit.

Unless I was in a long term relationship, and there was a health related reason why DP wasn't working full time - I would not want to subsidise someone choice to only work part time hours.

Agreed, but in this case OP's DP earns triple her salary.

Yeah but there is nothing stopping her retraining or taking a sideways move into a sector with higher pay.

In general, woman choose lower paid career tracks. There is nothing to prevent woman from making the same choices men do with regards to earning power. We have to take a bit of responsibility for ourselves and aim for high pay!

OP I'm not sure your update it particularly positive, it just doesn't sound like a great partnership and you're too old to be wasting fertile years with someone who isn't going to make a good dad if children are what you want.

-My husband is terrible about doing stuff around the house and while it's too late for me, it's not too late for you. Demand better. If I could build a time machine, this is one thing I would do differently.

-The fact that he's not cheap about buying drinks is a bit of a relief. This I would find intolerable.

-I'm glad that you almost left him over the scuba trip.

-He sounds far more opposed to a wedding than marriage. You need to test his commitment to you by suggesting (even as a ruse) that you go to the courthouse and pay £50.

Sounds like you're having the right conversation, good luck.

'You need to test his commitment to you by suggesting (even as a ruse) that you go to the courthouse and pay £50. '

She doesn't want that. She wants a wedding of £5-8k.

Did you talk about the house and 'his' mortgage becoming 'our' house/mortgage?

This is the crux of it I think. Whether he's paying off this mortgage for you both, or for him.

He won't marry you if its the latter I suspect.

It does sound like you both just have different priorities and ideas of what you want from a partner.

At the moment though you seem to be doing all the compromising (re cleaning, spending and marriage) and he is doing none.

The cleaning thing will be interesting - will he accept that even though he doesn't care if the house is messy, you do, and therefore in the interests of your relationship if he would be fair for him to do a bit more cleaning/tidying than he would if he lived on his own and only had his own low standards to worry about? It will be a good 'test' of whether he's capable of bending a bit.

You need to stop and think

Is he really the person you want to have a family with & grow old with?

It's not like you're sitting on your chuff doing feck all - you work, but are in a sector that doesn't pay huge corporate wages. He earns 3x your salary. We can't all have jobs that are that well paid - male or female. Whether it was good luck/good genes/good education or just hard bloody work, he's earning good money. You are not and he knew that when you got together. I think in that situation the higher earner needs to decide if this person is a good life partner for them and if they are, to be prepared to financially contribute more without resentment.

For your financial commitment each month, what would your other options be? (Buying? Renting alone? Flat share?) and for him, what would the difference be in costs if you were no longer living there? It feels to me like he's not just accepting (from you) the additional it costs him to have you there, but he's actually financially better off for having you live there and to me, that's not right. I feel that if he loved you, he wouldn't want to be financially better off for having you live there.

In a sort of similar situation the guy I was seeing moved in with me. He did the food shopping, that was it. I felt it covered any extra costs & I was happy with that. Yes I could have split the bills or whatever, but I'd been paying them all myself before he moved in & I was happy for him to get back on his feet & to continue to pay for stuff for his DD so she could carry on with various activities etc (he was separated when we met - I was not the OW. He was living in a shared flat & couldn't have his DD there).

I feel like he sees you as enabling him to pay more off his mortgage & save more, than a partner he really wants to live with. Of course he's going to say he's not totally against marriage...he knows he's benefiting out if this arrangement.

I'd go back to him on the 'financial' side of things & say you've been thinking about it & he's right, you possibly couldn't live anywhere any cheaper, but then you'd have more ownership in any other situation & you feel he's profiting out of you being there & it doesn't feel great - so, yeah, it would be great if he'd now pay the bills on his house & go halves with the food shop. See what he says - it'll be telling.

He's not ONCE in 4 years taken you away for a weekend or holiday, even though you've done that kind of thing for him. Why does he think it's ok to accept these things from someone earning a third of what he does, but never treat them!?

He'd be a bloody nightmare if you had kids.

He's thoughtless, selfish & tight. No qualities I look for in a man.