Burkinis

[TaterTots]

We've all seen the fuss about them, but last night I saw my first one in 'real life', which got me thinking. Also today two of my friends were arguing about them on FB - one against any ban, the other claiming they are a symbol of oppression.

My view has pretty much always been that it's just a different type of swimsuit; no different to some women wearing bikinis and others wearing one-pieces. I'd always thought the bans in places like Cannes were all about the culture/assimilation issue; it hadn't really crossed my mind that the 'modesty' might be being forced on women.

What do you think?

Iusedtobecarmen A burka is a one piece garment that covers the entire body and face, the most well known are the blue ones common in Afghanistan. They're rare in the west, I've never seen one outside Central Asia. Thanks to western media it's a very overused and misused word. Women who cover their face are usually wearing niqab.
I don't believe you have to be half undressed to attract male attention, I still occasionally have men try to chat me up despite wearing one of the most conservative styles of hijab.

If this is a problem to them maybe they could wear the burka (which certainly interferes with your vision) or blinkers. Or perhaps they should be kept secluded at home or only be allowed out when chaperoned. Strangely, no religions or cultures ever suggest this as a solution to the problems around male/female interactions.

The point of living somewhere like the UK is that I have the choice to wear a burkini, a bikini and nobody gets to judge what is going on inside my head (although pretty soon I will be wearing a full wetsuit, gloves, boots, and maybe a hood if it's really chilly).

France is getting scary.

Mermaid I've seen the blue garment you describe in West Newcastle many times.

barbarian
Absolutely. Funny how women are responsible for men not being able to control themselves.
Full on blinkers for men should do the trick.
Its ludicrous.

Ive seen that blue garment many times too. I live in a major city. I often see ladies fully covered including hands too (black gloves) . Not due to cold weather. In the summer too.

Carmen I feel comfortable walking around in a vest top, my sister wouldn't dream of walking around in a vest and would feel much more comfortable in a t shirt or with a light cardigan on top.

A lot of Muslim (and Jewish/Christian) women feel more comfortable having their hair, arms, legs etc covered. Each to their own and no big deal at all.

Don't know why someone's choice of dress or personal beliefs is ludicrous..very different to your own beliefs, yes, but how close minded and arrogant to call millions of people ludicrous because you don't agree.

Is it just Muslim women you have an issue with? Or is it also Jewish women who cover their hair and bodies?

"If this is a problem to them maybe they could wear the burka (which certainly interferes with your vision) or blinkers. Or perhaps they should be kept secluded at home or only be allowed out when chaperoned"

Ahh it certainly interferes with vision does it, so tell me, how long have you been wearing your burqa for?
I live in a part of London that's predominantly Muslim, I see women in burqas everyday, never seen them bump in to each other or crossing the road carelessly because they can't see they drive in my area as well and no accidents because of vision being blocked!

As for them being secluded at home, what a load of shit. It's actually I find more rare to see them with a man (usually at work I assume) during the day, they're running their errands with kids in tow, shopping, at the park etc. Always pleasant if I engage in conversation in the queue in tesco and play with my DD in doctors which always cheers her up!

"And i not its a bit off topic but i agree with whoever said the burka/burkini is not part of our culture in the UK."

Our culture is not oppressive, we allow people to wear whatever the hell they want unless it infringes on another's right or freedom.

your views are very unbritish

The burqa was designed to interfere with women's vision. So what they looked at could be monitored and controlled too

It's material chains

The niqab isn't as restrictive but it hides women and girls away from others they are visable but not identifiable and of course restricts communication it's ludicrous to say it doesn't

The burqa was designed to interfere with women's vision. So what they looked at could be monitored and controlled too

I'm not even going to bother to respond to this, please talk to women who wear burqa/niqab before you spout out rubbish. I'm sure there are women who are forced in to it, but I'm also sure there's an overwhelming amount of women who choose to cover themselves completely, if it makes you feel uncomfortable, that's your problem. If me wearing a bikini on a beach makes a Muslim woman on the beach uncomfortable, that's her problem.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe that women want to cover themselves completely to avoid any male attention whatsoever.

mermaid said as a Muslim woman who covers (everything but her face I assume) she still gets unwanted male attention, perhaps those who wear burqa/Niqab want to avoid this. It's really not a massive issue.

I'm not saying it doesn't restrict communication in any way, but if a woman chooses not to communicate with men or let anyone see their face then that's her prerogative. And as I mentioned, I interact with women who cover their faces all the time as there's a lot of Muslim women in my area and I honestly never feel uncomfortable..but then I'm not someone who judges others based on how much flesh is on show.

Do you think women designed the burqa ? A women thought one day i know what I shall design for myself an outfit they I can only look forward and slightly to the side when wearing I think I will feel more comfortable

Some may choose to wear but it was designed to be restrictive

I have no idea who designed the burqa but I'm sure millions of women who choose to wear one just don't want any attention, simple as that.

Don't know who designed a push up bra or make up either, could have been a man wanting to sexualize women and make sure they all look appealing. But I know for sure that most who choose to wear/use these items aren't forced in to it and choose to for whatever reason.

I'm really surprised Afghan burkas are in the U.K although I rarely go to England anymore to be fair.
I would really like to know why what we wear is so interesting to many non Muslims, can anyone enlighten me? Genuine question, I don't have any close non Muslim friends to ask.

Millions of women choose to wear one where are these millions of women

Those who do have a choice are also shutting themselves away from society. The UK is a progressive society where women are equal the niqab/burqa a women is invisible as a person that isn't progressive for women

She may have made the choice but it limits her life

Have you ever worn a burka StrawberryMummy? I have, many years ago, when staying with Afgani friends. You have no peripheral vision, the sodding mesh keeps moving so your tiny field of view is often even more tiny, it is hot and stuffy and you can't even see your damn feet - I kept tripping over things and into things. I'm sure, with practise, it gets easier but I couldn't believe how difficult and awkward it was. The only good thing about it was that it gave the family a good laugh - I lasted one 3 hour shopping trip. Nothing will convince me that anyone would choose to dress this way given a completely free choice. Certainly it's never caught on for men.

All over the world maybe? You do know Islam is a worldwide religion and not just restricted to certain countries..so yes, a hell of a lot of women.

I have given you examples of women interacting in society, being out and about, even working in shops (I've seen this in my area) all who cover their faces. Those women certainly aren't shutting themselves off from society.

If it limits her life choices and she is ok with that and something she has chosen then what's your issue? Yes women should absolutely be equal to men and no one should ever dictate what they should/shouldn't wear..it seems you are against this though as you clearly have a huge issue with women who choose to cover their faces.

Nothing will convince me that anyone would choose to dress this way

Ignorance is bliss as they say..

Fine to quote me but please use the whole quote not just half of it. Thanks.

Even with your whole post my comment still applies so no problem!

What area do you live in?

Ah women working in shops nothing more advancing for them then

The issues being is why women were originally kept covered and where now the influence of a more conservative Islam is coming from

It's certainly not from societies that are progressive for women and woman are treated as equals

enthusiasm I could tell you a Niqab wearing woman was a CEO of some big shot firm and you would still have a comment to make.

You carry on pretending you have the best interests at heart for Muslim women and I'll carry on seeing straight through you.

mermaid

We are honestly not all as islamophobic and ignorant as some of the posters on here! I also have no clue why the way you dress is such an issue.

Women don't have a choice in some countries to fully cover they have to and I am quite sure they make up the majority of women that do

Many might do so when travelling as they are expected to and have been conditioned from a young age to