To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

[AllieinWonderland]

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

OK you are right that she is not ready to leave home. She is not ready for Cambridge either if she is that traumatised still.

I would look at her either taking several years out in order to build up her resilience, address the panic and reduce her dependency on you - or doing a degree where she can live supported at home, as long as she takes steps to build a full social life outside the home, which I think would help with her anxiety.

I also think this sounds like PTSD rather than straight up panic - it needs to be treated by a specialist if so.

FWIW a friend of mine suffered trauma as a young teenager (witnessed a family member being murdered by another) and has been very successful academically (Oxbridge) and professionally but has always struggled with the legacy of the trauma, particularly when it comes to forming healthy romantic relationships. It's about the long game here. Getting better is more important than what she does for the next couple of years.

I get that you are both probably frustrated that her life maybe isn't as it would have been if she hadn't had the experiences she has had. But taking refuge in more study and programmed gap years isn't what she needs, I think. Confronting the panic and dealing with it will be hard but that should be the priority.

I have lowered my expectations on this thread - I do feel Cambridge and perhaps the other universities I suggest are a step too far, even though she does like Cambridge. I am probably too invested in her potential.

I would still, however, consider pushing her to apply to, for example, Nottingham (AAA-AAB), Surrey (AAB-ABB), Leeds which she could do from home (AAA), and Leicester (ABB-BBB), as well as Aberystwtyh (BBC), or universities of similar standings. I know a few people who got unconditional offers for Nottingham within a few hours of applying.

We have had the not ready to leave home conversation but she interprets it as me accusing her of not being strong enough. She has an obsession with being strong and likes to do everything the way she's planned. We are both perhaps a little strong willed, yet unwilling to argue with one another so we end up going round in circles.

Maybe with reflection you might see how a slightly bigger step back than that might be wise? She's got plenty of time to achieve her full potential. there's just some actual lived experience that might benefit from being considered more.

I do agree with all the gap year advice - honestly I do! It just seems to be SO off the cards, she was rather cross with me when my sister suggested she spends a year at home (in her words 'School's stressful. Uni's stressful. Have a chill year') and quickly told her that's a waste of time. And she rarely snaps...

I just don't get the feeling the step back is actually what she wants, because when I do suggest slightly lower offer universities she turns her nose up, and has openly criticised her friend's decision to look at 'lower' universities when she's capable of more. And she has, as I've said many a time, told me how much she liked Cambridge, and keeps reiterating it and looking at the prospectus - then quickly telling me it's unrealistic and she won't apply because of her 'B in music'. She has written her personal statement already, which also makes me think she might have the early entry in mind.

Bigger step back than to gap year even. More like first principles- "happy and healthy". Stop focussing on what's directly ahead and start seeing the forest for the trees.

"happy and healthy" is what she'd call "wishy washy" I'm afraid. She won't come to church now because it's too 'happy clappy' and laughs at other people who have panic attacks (I have tried to point out how peculiar this is but she just shrugs and calls herself weak, as well as them).

Seems form some of that you write Allie shes a chip off the old block;|).

I'm not saying she has to focus on that- I'm saying you do. Whether you discuss that with her in those terms or not is up to you.

Perhaps so ;) I guess she tries her hardest not to be like her dad so ends up being a carbon copy of me...

You cant help her with this. You really cant.

Only she can heal herself, and only when she is ready. Tbh, I think that many of us can see her crashing at some point, when the determination to be ok has run out, and thats what none of us want to see either of you go through.

The best thing you can do is to agree with her. Let her take the route she wants to take and be ready with the arms to catch her if she does indeed fall.

As parents we want to make everything ok for our kids. We want to take their hurt away, to mend them, to protect them. The hardest lesson I have learned as the mother of adult children is that you cant do it for them, sometimes you do have to let them fall and just be there to catch them.

Short bit of advice.
Get off her back about Uni.
Stop pushing her, let her do her own thing, just be there to catch her if she falls.

I am in similar boat with DD. All A* GCSE (average state school), many extra curricular etc. Looking at medicine or maths and considering Cambridge. However we arent sure how the grades will go this week as DD has been more distracted this year. It is a very difficult to get the balance right between pushing and supporting/encouraging.

I make it clear to DD that she can and should apply to Cambridge if she wants but also there are many other options (including local less good uni). DD also is anxious type and k worry about the stress etc of medicine and applying.

Cambridge have NO INTEREST in GCSEs.IGetting an interview is all about the AS grades

Can I suggest UEA in Norwich as another option for English Lit. I transferred there in my second year with PTSD and found it incredibly supportive.
The English dept is very well regarded so maybe the expected grades will put her off? But it doesn't have the overall reputation of Cambridge so maybe less pressure?

I think we just like focusing on the future and having something seemingly important to discuss. She doesn't seem that stressed about it, though this thread has made me a lot more stressed about it! I just want her to see that she can do better than what she's aiming for, and that it isn't worth sacrificing a course she'll love so she can go to Bradford Uni.

BengalCatMum - I have tried to tell her it doesn't matter, she's just a big worrier so convinces herself things like this DO matter and insists I try to help her sort it.

user - I have remarried but it is not what I see as a 'new narrative' - a pimary reason for moving in together was so he could get a job that involves a lot of time in London and a week a month in Boston, and I would be able to look after his four boys. We then married at the suggestion of my little daughter, who considered it outrageous we weren't already married and can be very persuasive! (she got her older sister to help make a powerpoint of 'reasons you should get married')

I think I can see her crashing too, and I suppose all I want is to try and avoid it. I think talking about unis distracts us from the things we're actually stressed about, because we both know she'll be fine with grades and university.

AS grades aren't as big now because a lot of schools aren't taking them - DD's school seem to be one of the few in our area. The UMS score won't be displayed unlike before, and there will in fact be more weighting on the newly introduced ELAT (an admissions test) so we know as much as we're going to know for now.

(Also she thinks her exams went well and has been on track for 95%+ in everything so even if they counted we wouldn' t be too worried)

She has a UEA prospectus I think (she has about 20 though so don't quote me), so maybe that'll come into conversation soon!

RubbishMantra - DD does WANT to go to Cambridge, just doesn't believe she can. I don't want her to go, mainly because I didn't enjoy it, but then I don't want to push my experience onto her as it was a different college and a different course and a different time. She just believes she'll get rejected so sees it as fruitless, and I have decided to let it lie and hope she doesn't hate me for it in years to come.

I ended up dropping out of uni at the end of my second year. I didn't take a gap year, but in hindsight I maybe should have. I got a little part time job as I finished my A level qualifications, and it turned out I loved the job more than I enjoyed university; I've been working full time over a year and a half now. I was slightly different to your daughter in that I chose a creative subject and this wasn't wise - the pressures of "the industry" completely ruined something that I really loved, and over a year later I still can't bring myself to pick up a sketchbook - I can still hear the criticisms from my lecturers "yes it's nice but a bit dull" "a bit mainstream" "too bold" and I just can't do it. I too had the grades to get in at Oxbridge or Goldsmiths...but it wouldn't have been good for me; I was told I couldn't work while I was there and that would have placed extraordinary pressure on me financially, as I couldn't really afford to move away. I did go to an equally well regarded, academically good specialist art/design university, but I wish I'd taken my degree at the college up the road, I'd have completed it no doubt and would have enjoyed it and maybe I'd still be doing the thing I used to love most. I don't really know how you can help your daughter, it depends on her as a person really. Just support her decisions regardless of what you think. I know my mum must've been disappointed when I left uni but she just hugged me and said she just wanted me to be happy.

The intensive drive, constant filling of her time, massive commitments suggest that she is using all of those things to mentally run away from something that is disturbing her. Panic attacks kick in when she can't mentally hide, but as she then powers on again she is continuing the same cycle and not actually dealing with her problems. Cognitive dissonance will only take her so far.

She may well manage a stellar university experience but i would be concerned that at some point everything she is hiding from will stop being hide able. I think she needs you to step in and enforce effective therapy. After her A levels if you feel that would be the right choice, but before she starts her adult life would be the best start you could give her.