To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

[AllieinWonderland]

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

I'm glad things worked out for you FairyDogMother11. I will of course support her whatever she chooses, I just want to put her on the right path. If our situation were different I may be less involved, but I think she needs someone to tell her she's capable of far more than she believes, even if it doesn't change her mind.

OP just wondering where you did your degree?

I don't think you should make her, and I think even though you say there's no pressure, it seems your family are used to high achievers and noting those that fail.

I don't think 16 GCSE's are that much I have the same, and I went to a normal school, the top 3/4 sets all did that many, a couple opted for more. It wasn't that bad, although the exam timetable was a little mental but manageable

We are a very big family - I'm one of thirteen, and my mum's one of eleven and we all grew up in the same town so are all very close, and yes, there are a lot of high achievers which may add to her pressure, though sadly there isn't much I can do about that - apart from sabotage her cousins' results!

I am reluctant to force more therapy on her NotAnotherHarlot as I think two hours a week (one of art therapy, one of counselling) is enough for now, as she particularly finds the counselling quite stressful. She usually seems shaken up after and funnily enough they're the only days when she struggles getting out of bed.

I think there has been an error in my wording here - I do not want to push her into something she doesn't want. I want her to believe that what she wants is within her reach, and that she can achieve more than she thinks she can. This is what I mean by 'push'. She loves Cambridge, as she has told me, and she loves English literature, as is more than evident. She is suggesting Peace Studies at Bradford because she believes that is all she is capable of. She knows nothing about the course and has previously told me she dislikes the campus and the city, and I haven't heard positive things about a lot of he students - though I don't doubt there are many lovely ones there as well.

BengalCatMum the place is exactly why she ruled out Lancaster! And Warwick she liked the course but not the place because, well, it isn't a place... (It's nowhere near Warwick, which is a lovely place if a little twee in my experience) I'm just hoping she finds somewhere else she loves, and that it's somewhere she believes she can go. She loves Cambridge enough to apply, but doesn't have the confidence to do so. All I want is for her to have the confidence to apply to the next place she is enamoured with.

I am going to remain heavily involved, because I know without my involvement she panics, and I know she has to get used to it one day but I don't think this is the day. She is independent in other aspects of life, we just enjoy discussion with one another and it isn't something we find particularly stressful, due to her stellar academic record.

I will of course support whatever she chooses, and if she finds out what Peace Studies actually is and it turns out she DOES love it, then I will be in support. But having seen her attitude to English literature, I can't see her loving anything else as much.

Allie, your DD won't hate you for allowing her to make her own decisions, but guided by you, not forced, and to be able to make her own life path with your support, which she has the absolute right to do.

Listen to her. Please?

Your poor daughter - she sounds like Norah in Carol Shields' novel Unless.

I went to 'Oxbridge' highly anxious, young for my age, worried about rejection and failure. I struggled socially too. And... it was still okay; not a shining three years but on the whole worth it. My issues would have gone with me wherever I went. I muddled through, sometimes quite happily. The academic work was a saving grace, really, rather than adding pressure.

If she is very academic she should be around people like her (which could be a number of places, of course). Boredom won't help her much and she should be careful to choose a subject which she thinks will be genuinely interesting for itself. Some programmes just don't have a huge study requirement and vacations are long, so she should think carefully about fit, especially since fees are so high now.

A trivial point but I don't think any Oxbridge admissions tutor would pay any attention to the grade B - some friends have done admissions interview - and she mightn't even be required to include it (I may be wrong).

Cambridge won't go away if she doesn't apply - perhaps she could hold on to the idea of applying for a M.Phil. if she does enjoy and do well at undergrad. It must be so difficult because you think she secretly does want to go, and will regret her choices, but you can't solve this for her. It's difficult. I wish her all the very best at figuring out what she wants and how to ask for it (a piece of advice from a bad movie, which has stuck somehow).

And justa"boy" Please do refrain from referring to women as "Ladies". It irritates the bogies out of me, as I'm sure it does many of the other "Ladies" on the board.

In listening to her all i hear is an insecure teenager who doesn't know what she wants, but knows an awful lot of things she doesn't want.

The only things she doesn't not want (if that makes sense) is English Literature, currently specifically at Cambridge, thought Warwick gets a half hearted thumbs up, and Peace Studies at Bradford despite knowing nothing about it...

I'm hoping she likes Nottingham personally because my favourite brother lives there and his family are lovely and the city is lovely as is the campus and the asking grades are only AAB... Though AAB she will of course say is "a little bit unrealistic really"

I have been hinting a lot at Leicester too, her friend is going to that open day in September so I suggested she went with her and she is considering. It's not Russell Group and I think asks for ABB-BBB so that also seems like a good balance to me - academic, but not particularly high pressure for her.

Hiding this thread because of "Yes, but......."

The key is just convincing her that there are universities that offer English lit but aren't hugely competitive so she doesn't have to fear rejection - especially not with 13A*s!

The key is just convincing her that there are universities that offer English lit but aren't hugely competitive so she doesn't have to fear rejection - especially not with 13As!*

No, the key is to let your daughter decide what she wants to do and where she wants to do it. There must be some reason why she's thinking of this peace studies course, even if she can't articulate it to you right now. Once she's written her personal statement I'm sure it will be clear.

You seem absolutely determined to find an excuse to push her into what you want her to do. As well as fearing not getting in anywhere she'll also have the added worry of letting you down by not going where you want her to go. You're putting her in a horrible position.

I've read the whole thread and think you're getting a hard time on here OP.

Sounds like you and your DD have a lovely trusting relationship. And having gone through so much, it's good that she is turning to you for advice. I suspect a few on here a) haven't got teenage DC and b) can't see the difference been guiding / encouraging and pushing.

I wish my parents encouraged me a little more at 17-18 as I did make some unwise decisions.

I'd me tempted to show your dd this thread! She's not listening to you about putting pressure on herself or taking a break, so perhaps a hundred strangers may make her think that she needs a bit of time out?

Please stop pushing her, and making decisions for her. I read the thread, and what you've been through sounds awful, but what you're doing is really upsetting to read.

For what it's worth, the demands of Cambridge English Lit are quite high - the course is stressful. However, the standard for Cambridge is not that hugely, impossibly higher than it is at say, Nottingham or York or other universities you mention. All university courses will be fairly demanding for someone who is struggling with their mental health, and all of the high-ranked ones will require a lot of work, and will be stressful.

Her GCSE grades will not be very important in the selection process - she's done so many that the difference between her and someone who did 11 or 12 good GCSEs just won't really matter very much.

Likewise, her extra-curricular studies. They show she can multitask and that's very good, and the BL work experience - I guess it's this not their internships? - might have given her something interesting to talk about in interview. But they don't matter that much.

I'm saying this because I think you are clinging to the idea that she has done so brilliantly, that she is almost throwing away a chance of Oxbridge, and it's not like that. I wonder if this might help her feel more calm, too? If she is getting the message from you that she has a high chance of getting in, she will feel worse if she doesn't. The candidates who seem to take the process most calmly, are those who have not actually thought much about their chances, and have just given it a go. You're not putting her in a position to do that at the moment, so I can understand how she might feel.

Also, just a final issue: I am really sorry to hear what happened to both of you. It sounds horribly traumatic. Do be aware - if she does English Lit anywhere, she is going to read quite a lot of fairly violent texts. It may be she finds that fine, or even a helpful way of processing her own emotions, but it is worth her taking a minute to think about that.

If we're you I would keep in encouraging her to apply for Cambridge, she sounds very capable although be aware that she may need some help to cope with the pressure. A lot can happen in the year between applying for uni and actually going. Maybe suggest that she applies for Cambridge, a good Russell group uni and somewhere with a low offer as her insurance.
I was similar to your daughter, good grades, nice girls grammar school, plenty of activities but nobody in my family had ever been to university before, I didn't apply for Cambridge and instead applied for places I knew I'd get low offers for and ended up at an ex polytechnic. I loved my degree and the lecturers but I do wonder if I could have got into Cambridge and even though I have got a first class degree and went on to get an MSc with distinction and a PhD from Russell group universities I know that my undergraduate degree has stopped me from getting certain jobs which specify an undergraduate degree from Russell group universities.

I was a bit like your daughter. Very under confident despite outstanding GCSEs and A-levels, high attaining in music and sport. I wanted to go to my local University because I was scared of becoming homesick. My local uni was good, but nevertheless I was capable of reaching higher.
My mum as good as insisted I applied to Oxford after an open day where I had really enjoyed the college I visited. I thought I had no chance. I got in and it changed my life - I blossomed, became confident in my abilities and left with an excellent degree that opened all the doors I could have imagined.
I'm going to go against the grain here, and whilst you cannot and should not make her, I think you should continue to strongly encourage her. It might change her life.