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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

643 replies

AllieinWonderland · 16/08/2016 22:31

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/08/2016 15:51

allie, MNHQ will very likely delete certain posts if you report them and ask (in the blue bar about each post, which has your name in it, you'll see 'report' on the right-hand side). They'll usually come up blank with a message saying 'post removed at the poster's request' or something similar.

It's just it'd be a shame to lose all the information people have shared that isn't identifying at all, but might be helpful for others who're also thinking about the general topic of university and mental health.

cestlavielife · 18/08/2016 15:51

Ps you have not doe wrong. .. you can get used to live g an abnormal life.
But take on board sone ideas
Look into targeted therapies
Considea gap yr

AllieinWonderland · 18/08/2016 15:53

veryproudvolleyballmum I honestly don't think the remarriage has had a negative impact on her. She and DH get along marvellously, and when I first suggested moving the two families in together she was positive and assured me it was what she wanted. If it hadn't been, I wouldn't have gone ahead.

I know she's in a mentally fragile place, and in my heart of hearts I did know that before, I just didn't want to admit it. I was frightened, and I still am frightened. I am willing to face up to the fact that I have done an awful job at all of this.

OP posts:
AllieinWonderland · 18/08/2016 15:55

Yes LRD you're right - I intend to go through and just report the identifying posts, and make sure the posts that will benefit others are still here. I didn't realise that was something you could do.

OP posts:
cathyandclare · 18/08/2016 15:55

If she's interested in teaching/education, there's an interesting English literature and education course at Cambridge. It's less competitive than pure English Literature. Maybe she might like that.
Having said that, I think you're right and a gap year would be a good idea.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 18/08/2016 16:00

Allie, look, I feel really sad for you. You weren't inept and no one brings abuse on themselves. You should never have had to accept being controlled by your ex-H as your lot in life, just because your family don't do divorce. As for the pregnancies that you would not have chosen - my heart goes out to you. You deserve more out of life than a non-romantic partnership (although I accept that you may be happy like this - I don't know). I do think you should have a think about how much you are worth. You, personally.

PurpleDaisies · 18/08/2016 16:16

allie if you're going to delete this thread (which might be a good idea due to all the identifying information), who don't you save the useful posts, name change and post in mental health? There are many posters with experience of PTSD who I'm sure would be helpful to you.

trafalgargal · 18/08/2016 16:38

I don't think you've done anything wrong and you've been very honest.
It sounds like you don't have a sounding board in your life that is removed enough from you emotionally so some of the bluntness here I'm sure was hard .....but ultimately it's all opinion so take the useful stuff that benefits you and your family. I'm thinking it has given you a lot of food for thought. If I was your friend I think I'd be saying to you to remember your coping mechanisms and your daughters are quite different and to be careful she doesn't think she has to ignore and plough on too but can say she's not comfortable or has changed her mind and certainly doesn't have to rush off to uni without a gap year or go the Oxbridge route just because her step brother did.

Hope she's having a great birthday

BestZebbie · 18/08/2016 19:23

Lostoldlogin: unfortunately those particular freshers week experiences are absolutely ubiquitous at universities, certainly not restricted to Cambridge! New students away from home for the first time and just over the drinking age are often very keen about using alcohol to help break the ice ( I appreciate that you weren't).
I have been to a few unis including Camb. abd my experience was definitely that there, an evening 'party' could easily be board games and snacks - elsewhere that was much less the case, and to qualify for that term it would need drink and dancing at min.

Cubtrouble · 18/08/2016 19:31

I haven't read the whole post but there are lots of nice things to do in Cambridge where you could relax together and see the sights, it's a lovely lovely city and there are some really nice things to do. If she gets to know a place maybe she would feel more at home and want to go there.

Getting her results must feel a massive relief and maybe she needs a break befor the next stage.

LaurieMarlow · 18/08/2016 20:18

Allie, just want to say you've come a long way on this thread and I admire your honesty and openness with us all. You and your DD have had to deal with a lot. I wish you both the very best.

SinnyLou · 18/08/2016 20:33

Have just read the full thread and second the above post from LaurieMarlow. You and your daughter need and deserve much support and nurturing and I hope you find this for both of you. Best wishes to your family.

AliceScarlett · 18/08/2016 21:01

I admire you OP. Flowers

AllieinWonderland · 18/08/2016 23:56

I plan to, when I get the chance, work out how to make this thread less identifying but make sure the valuable opinions and experiences, and information, are not lost. It may be deleting my posts, or it may be a case of getting out the dreaded laptop so I can go through and create new compilation posts, so that they're available to anyone who needs it. I don't want the responses to be lost because many of them are valuable, and others may need them. I was only thinking of myself when I discussed deleting the thread earlier - I was and still am in a bit of a state over everything.

I just want to quickly address the thread's initial issue - at no point was I intending on trying to push my daughter in a direction she didn't want to go. The word "push" was perhaps a silly one to use, and was referring to my persuading her to go for what she told me she wanted.
I do see what what she wants (which is English lit at Cambridge, though she believes herself to be incapable) is quite clearly not what she needs - despite her stellar academic record and crazy ability. She will be capable of doing it in the future if she wants to, just as she would be capable of going to any university.

I don't think universities that aren't Oxbridge or Russell Group are any "worse" than the aforementioned, and I honestly don't consider certain universities (Oxbridge etc) superior to those of a lower 'ranking'. I think they are simply different experiences, which different people are suited to and enjoy. My DD, as I am the one who knows her best, would almost certainly not fit in at Bradford University - which I know as a result of living nearby and subsequently interacting with many of the students, doing some work there, and knowing people who work there and hearing their take on it as an establishment, and the students they teach. Similarly I do not think a big city like Birmingham or Liverpool would suit her. This was why I opposed suggestions of these universities. It was not for snobbish reasons, as there are people who will do well and, most importantly, are happy at Bradford, and at Birmingham, and who will love their time there. My DD is just unlikely to be one of those people. I feel I failed to articulate in my stress at the high criticism and sense of failure and insecurity I was beginning to feel. I started to sound cold, robotic, and at times snobbish and unreasonable. I was simply stressed out and felt bombarded by posts, questions, and criticisms.

My initial post too, was poorly worded, as I failed to outline the key issue, maybe because I didn't realise it: my daughter's inability to see and accept her own potential, and identify with what a wonderful, kind, and capable girl she is. I have not enabled her to understand these things by stifling her, indirectly not allowing her to show her distress and probably confusion at her father's death because I was doing my best to withhold all distress and emotion, believing we needed to just move on with life. I did believe this was what was best for my family, and it (appears to have - fingers crossed) worked for her siblings, probably because they were younger, and probably because she was always the quietest, more sensitive child. I always remember finding her crying on the stairs at the age of five because she thought it was sad that her dad's mum was dead, even though she'd never met the grandma in question (died about ten years before she was born.

Lastly, I am not a pushy or controlling mum. I'm really not, this much I know. DD1 is high achieving and constantly partaking in extra curricular activities (usually to a relatively high level) by her own choice. DD2 (14) has chosen to partake in scrolling through YouTube and snapchat, and DS (15) to be engrossed in the world of girls. DD3 (10) is more like DD1, so I will be careful to try and avoid her having to face a decline like I've stupidly (stupid stupid STUPID is all I can think) caused for DD1. DD4 (6) is feisty, and not very good at the whole listening/sitting still gig that school requires of her, though she tries. We'll see what happens there.
I am simply describing this to prove the point many disputed and accused in the early stages of this thread: I have allowed my children to become their own people, and am proud of and love them all equally, no matter what their academic, sporting, musical, social achievements are.

That feels soppy to write, but I think I'm generally not soppy enough. Something else to work on in the ever growing list.

OP posts:
Lonnysera · 19/08/2016 00:06

I hear you and I believe you. X

user1471134011 · 19/08/2016 00:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

user1471134011 · 19/08/2016 00:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Diglet · 19/08/2016 00:20

OP, you sound like a lovely caring Mum. Ok so you aren't perfect but none of us are. We all make mistakes, raising kids is complicated at the best of times so I'm not suprised you and your DD have a few things to think about given your family history.

Don't mistake the 'advice' on this thread as anything more than it is. We don't know you and are only basing our thoughts on a few posts but if it makes you think about things then hopefully it's worthwhile. Thanks

If you ever post again you can name change and change minor details so you are not identifiable (assuming what you have written is 'true')

Personally, I would delete the thread and I wouldn't feel guilty about doing it for one second.

AllieinWonderland · 19/08/2016 00:27

Thank you Diglet, I didn't mean for so much information to come onto here, or for it to turn into such a long thread (I can't help imagining everyone's fed up with it now!) - it all seemed to come out in a bit of a nervous, stressed spurt.

I do think some of what has been said is truly valuable (some less so - just people seeming to want to pick constant fault) and think it would be a shame to lose, so I do intend to make sure certain info is left on a thread somewhere.

OP posts:
MiaowJario · 19/08/2016 00:44

I just saw it it as you knew you needed to talk about something, thought it was one thing, and then it soon turned out to be another. The deepest insights often occur when you think you need to discuss something else.

Take care Flowers

gillybeanz · 19/08/2016 00:48

I haven't rtft but bits and pieces and have commented before.
All I have to add is, They don't come with instruction books.

trafalgargal · 19/08/2016 06:44

I'm sure many people use the coping mechanisms you use when dealing with suicide and the issue of other family members needing other ways to cope can't be unique by any means and I wonder if a counsellor specialising in bereavement might be useful for you at this point partly to air everything you suppressed at the time as you normalised life after your husband's death and partly to help you to adjust to understanding your daughter and her challenges in that context.

I talked earlier of you appearing detached and I didn't mean it as a criticism but that you'd used it as a defence mechanism that you needed to cope with when your husband died. It worked for you at the time but everything has moved on and what was appropriate then may not be the best way forward now for you and your children. It's possible the younger children also may benefit from a change in approach and may want to talk about/have questions but because of your determined to move on approach haven't felt able to broach it. I know a friend of mine who lost their father as a toddler in similar circumstances needed to have help dealing with not understanding why her father "had chosen to leave " her as a teen when she had a full understanding of what he had done. Kids thought processes can be very different to ours , even with minor stuff let alone the big things!

I wouldn't discount Cambridge entirely at this point, a lot changes in a year or two and buying time with a gap year with a purpose could make all the difference. Personally having seen as a (very) mature student the difference between the straight from 6th form undergraduates and those who took a gap year in terms of maturity and coping , I think everyone should have a year between A levels and uni :). But then I also think teachers do far better with a bit of life experience under their belts, although I also wonder if teaching will be your daughters ultimate destination as it seems she wants a specialist degree and a degree in education hasn't come anywhere on the list (not a bad thing she has a lot of potential and with broadened horizons at uni may decide she has other plans anyway)
I do think the discussions about how different Unis suit different personalities have been really valuable, as a mature student I've attended different institutions and the feel is so different between them and it's something that isn't always considered enough when choosing . Huge campus spread across a big city is so different to a single cohesive campus with halls for example. I hope that part of the discussion survives when you cull the thread.

trafalgargal · 19/08/2016 06:49

And nothing you have done is stupid ....you're just at a point now where you are taking a broader view and seeing things more.......flexibly.

Wanderingraspberry · 19/08/2016 07:26

Let her go where she wants to. Perhaps she is lacking in confidence because her opinions are being disregarded? Stop arranging open days for her, if shes going to go to uni she needs to manage stuff like that by herself.

GloriaGaynor · 19/08/2016 08:37

OP, I must say that in the entire thread never did I think you were, did you ever come across, as a 'bad' or 'pushy' or 'heartless' mother.

I never doubted you're a good mother, that's why you're here asking for help. You're obviously a very caring person and trying very hard to find the best solution for your daughter.

There's been some very good advice on this thread, but some may have been hard to hear, yet you've taken it all on board - a testament to your strength of character and your desire to help your daughter.

If you would rather keep the thread for the moment, you can have it moved by MNHQ to a more private place. I'll PM you.