Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be angry that MIL may have indoctrinated my child?

510 replies

FruitCider · 13/08/2016 19:51

I've been away for just under a week volunteering abroad and got home this morning. My mother in law (reverend) has been to stay with my partner whilst I went away. I'm completely atheist, partner is agnostic. MIL tried to give me a nativity set at Christmas for DD and a book full of bible stories, I declined and said I didn't want my daughter exposed to religion by people with a bias to a particular religion until she was 7/8.

I've come home today and my 3.5yo DD is continuously talking about Jesus, how God made the planet and told me I should thank god that my journey was safe. My partner says MIL had not mentioned religion when he was at home but he had to leave DD with MIL on Tuesday and Thursday whilst he went to work.

I'm absolutely RAGING! AIBU to be this angry? I literally want to banish MIL from my house and tell her she is not allowed contact with my DD for the foreseeable future.

Also is my DD likely to forget about God as she grows up if it's not mentioned again? Or is she now indoctrinated forever?

Sorry to those who may find this post offensive, I just wanted my DD to make her own mind up when she was old enough to understand that religion is a belief and there is no firm evidence for a God. She could have decided herself to be a Christian and I would have accepted that.

OP posts:
Oothoon · 14/08/2016 21:14

I agree with Orsono that it's a learning opportunity. I'm a total atheist and so is DH, but like you OP I'm very open to exposing my DCs to as many religions as possible (DH much less keen!). DS had a real thing about churches as a toddler and insisted on going into every one we passed including a gospel service in full swing, with tongues. When he was 3 his grandfather died and he began to take the bible stories he learned at nursery more seriously, and by 5 announced himself to be a Christian. DH was not best pleased but I encouraged DS to find out more by asking MIL about it (she being the only person in the immediate family with any faith) and I offered to take him to church if he wanted to, though we never got that far. Nevertheless, at 7 he announced to a friend of mine that he no longer believed in god, and when asked why said that it was because God was supposed to have created the animals, but animals didn't believe in God, so what was the point of that? (He was having a big Steve Backshall phase at the time.) A couple of years later, he's a fervent atheist on his own account, not ours.

Recently MIL admitted she'd lost her faith over the past couple of years, which DH and I were very supportive about, as it's partly associated with bereavement, and it's a horrible thing to have to rethink everything you've ever believed in your 70s. It turned out that the final piece in the jigsaw had fallen into place during a conversation with 8-year-old DS in which he explained all the reasons why people might feel the need to believe in god even if he didn't exist! 'Indoctrination' can work both ways, but he would never have convinced her if she hadn't already been heading that way, just as DS had felt the need of faith as a tiny thing after the loss of his grandfather.

DD is now six and frequently announces herself to be a Christian on account of a couple of adored Christian class teachers. I doubt she'll turn as quickly as DS and may not at all but I think it's perfectly natural for young children to believe in a higher power regardless of their upbringing - after all, when they're babies they think the universe is out to get them every time they spill their milk. Even if your DD turns out as a Christian, what's more important is what sort of Christian she is, and with the upbringing you're giving it seems pretty unlikely she'll turn out like your batshit crazy MIL. But if your DD turns out to be an atheist, let it be on DD's own account, not yours.

Cheesecakefan · 14/08/2016 21:31

There is good evidence for the existence of God.

subspla.sh/c02959d
and other debates by William Lane Craig (on YouTube)

The Case for a Creator: A Journalist Investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God by Strobel. Lee ( 2004 ) Paperback www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00HRF0HXG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_2nnSxb5ZS02CF
and other books by Lee Strobel

Cold-Case Christianity: A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00A71Y7I8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_frnSxbTK91SMQ

The Reason for God www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00319M6TK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_ZsnSxbBE8D01K

for example.

FruitCider · 14/08/2016 21:34

cheesecakefan that's not evidence in my mind - I take my evidence from research and not testimonials, YouTube, or books. Sorry if that offends Flowers

OP posts:
Lweji · 14/08/2016 21:36

Oh, dear.

There is NO evidence for the existence of God. That's why people believe or not.

When there's evidence, people just accept the evidence. No need for beliefs.

HermioneWeasley · 14/08/2016 21:38

cheesecake that's not evidence.

As I said before "because.....god" is an incredibly lazy argument.

FreshHorizons · 14/08/2016 21:54

I would have more faith in your DC- she will make up her own mind and it will eventually be her ideas and not her mother's or grandmother's ideas.
I never understand why censorship is needed. Children are very adaptable and can understand different viewpoints- if people let them.

FreshHorizons · 14/08/2016 21:56

When I was a child I came across adults with all sorts of ideas- some decidedly odd! I can't see why it matters.

FreshHorizons · 14/08/2016 21:58

I am surprised that people still think there are secular schools in England.

FreshHorizons · 14/08/2016 22:00

I should think she has done her a favour- if a child has not come across God by the time they start school it becomes a very exciting concept!

derxa · 14/08/2016 22:03

Karen: How can you not like somebody you've never met?
Sue: Good point, Karen.
Karen: Yes, you should only hate people you know.
Sue: Ye... er...
Karen: Like Miss Braybrook.
Sue: But you love Miss Braybrook! She's the reason you're Christian!
Karen: Not any more, that's all rubbish.
Pete: Rubbish is a bit harsh.
Karen: I don't believe in God anymore, I'm a Satanist.
Pete: I think that's an atheist. Satanists...do things to goats.

ProphetOfDoom · 14/08/2016 22:05

Accept the nativity set OP, then you can recreate this holy scene

Neem · 14/08/2016 22:37

i think it's quite nice for children to be surrounded by people of differing beliefs--faith or non-faith. Banning either camp is just not possible, practical, nor reflective of real society. Imagine a religious person saying they didn't want their children to be around atheists?

ShakyMilk · 14/08/2016 22:45

My three year old remembered our activity (nativity) from last year and also Baby Chino (Jesus)!! Other than that, no idea about religion but I expect it to happen sooner or later and will be telling her what I don't believe in and what her dad does.

stayathomedad · 14/08/2016 22:54

Mumontherun- yes agreed it'd be nice to get some support on this from one's partner, but I see many family scripts where the partner is (even at 52!) bullied beyond belief by their overbearing parent and won't stand alongside you because sadly they are actually afraid. Sometimes you have to fight your own battles.

Either religion/gender/LGBT whatever - FIL/MIL/hamster in law/ etc., makes no difference.
It's fundamentally about respect: and just being religious DOES NOT excuse you from showing respect to others. That way fundamental Islam and worse lies... this kind of behaviour is saying 'I don't trust you to bring up my grandchild correctly so will interfere even if it causes issues between you and my son' and 'see how you like that' (*smirk). In some cases they're not happy til they've split their perfect darling (adult) child from the 'nasty not good enough' partner.

  1. DON'T let her get to you. Remain polite & firm at all times.
  2. DO deal with her adult to adult, even if you feel she is behaving childishly (each step over the line unchallenged will give her confidence and before you know it even your child's potatos will be being 'cooked wrong' by you).
  3. cut your DP some slack; someone may need to play diplomat at some point. Sorry to say this as it may upset many genuinely kind and tolerant religious folk, but whether OP is Atheist Muslim or Catholic or Buddhist, it is her and her partners right and duty to bring up her child without outside interference - the GPs have had their chance. As we have all noted here, MIL GP may just turn said child off religion by banging on with her own agenda but that's not the point; surely she should be supporting her daughter in law, not wilfully spiteing her. God (ahem) help her - how would she react if son had married a Muslim?
stayathomedad · 14/08/2016 22:59

Ps - Xmas/Fairies /Easter bunnies / saskwach/ etc... Most are mixed pagan/Christian mashups and just a bit of fun nowadays to most people, an excuse to party (from jelly & cake as kids to in adult years a glass of wine) with friends and family. The roots of these are deeply interesting yes, but not to toddlers.

Honeybadger83 · 14/08/2016 23:00

I would be absolutely furious in your position, and would be having very strong words with my mother-in-law, or be asking my partner to. It is absolutely out of order for her to present these things as facts to your child knowing your wishes on the subject.

While you can't remove those things from your daughter's brain, you can certainly give her a context by saying "that's just what some people believe. Nobody knows for certain, but some people have different ideas and that is one of them." I had several discussions like this with my son when he was a similar age. I am an atheist, and had similar views against any religion being presented to him as truth, especially by an authority figure. My son was curious about the mosques and churches near us, so I explained that people have different ideas about how the world worked but nobody knows for certain.
Present the facts as facts, the ideas as ideas, and the stories as stories. Make sure she knows which ones are which. It's very fresh in her mind at the moment, but it will get diluted down one she understands that it isn't, for lack of a better word, gospel truth.

Sara107 · 14/08/2016 23:03

My dD has just finished her second year at school, and religous education seems to be part of the curriculum. She comes home with all sorts of confused stories about Shiva and Jesus, and objects d'arts such as designs for prayer mats and pictures of what you would see in a church. So I don't think you can protect your child from mention of religion til she's 7! Quite apart from the who!e Christmas / nativity thing that will happen in school. Especially if her own granny is a priest, it seems completely unreasonable to try and shield her from religion. Much better to explain to her, in an age appropriate way, that these are stories and some people believe them and others, including you don't. As she gets older you can discuss it in more depth with her.

snowy508601 · 14/08/2016 23:22

Firstly your DP is her dad presumably and so he can dfecide who your DD gets to see when she is with him. Your MIL is a vicar talking about god is her mission in life.

catkind · 14/08/2016 23:24

OP never said she wanted to shield her DD from mention of religion. She just doesn't want her deliberately indoctrinated. There's a big difference.

dollydoesdalaman · 14/08/2016 23:50

All parents, like it or not attempt to indoctrinate their children, in as much as we want to convince them to follow the same belief system or moral code as we do ourselves.

Along the way we have to accept that they will encounter different viewpoints, perspectives and nuances.

Here's an example. I teach my young children that stealing is always wrong. But recently, I bought them a bunch of Roald Dahl CDs (they are aged 6,5 and 3 so probably still just a little bit too little to be able to read them for themselves) for car journeys and bedtimes etc, which they love. Anyway - a line in Fantastic Mr Fox made me think, because when badger questions whether or not they ought to be stealing from Boggis, Bunce and Bean, he reinforces this morality - stealing is wrong. Fox then points out that there isn't a parent in the world who wouldn't steal if it would save their starving children from death.

Would we start out by giving our children this complicated narrative that sometimes, in extraordinary circumstances, stealing, while not a good thing to do, can occasionally be acceptable? No. We give them the absolute and expect them to accept it and it's only later on, can various ethics be explored, once they have the intellectual capacity to do so.

So (sorry philosophical ramble) I'd argue that all little children are natural theologians, in that they are interested in the questions of who made me, who created the world, what happens when you die and unquestioningly accept the idea of God, when it's presented to them.

It sounds like YABU and intolerant because you can't accept that your daughter may think differently from you and you want to shed a whole heap of convenient blame on your MIL.

The anger seems to be a combination of things. The history of the bad relationship with the MIL and the fact that you feel that you might have lost control of your daughter's impressionable mind.

I am a committed Christian, I disagree with a lot that your MIL seems to be putting forward. What concerns me most is the description of people as cockroaches, which is an extremely un-Christian attitude.

The calling you a whore, while deeply unpleasant, I wouldn't take too seriously, in that though it's a sexually charged misogynist term, sounds like she totally lost her temper and meant it more in the sense of a dirty slattern etc. Someone who she felt was all over the place. I am not excusing it, but just think it doesn't sound like it was meant in a sexual way.

It is unreasonable to expect her not to want to see her grandchild and also to want to limit her religious and individual freedom, because of an ungrounded phobia of indoctrination.

Reading about the history between you, there's always two sides to every story and my honest assessment is that you are both a pair of self-righteous neurotic control freaks with anger-management issues. Have you actually told your MIL that you'd prefer her not to use said mug? Is it really worth getting upset about a used teabag?

It's your DH and your daughter I feel sorry for, caught between a nutty, but probably well-meaning reverend who reads too much Daily Mail, and a neurotic mother who is evidently extremely pleased with herself for taking a week off, not to spend with her young family, but to do some virtue signalling and pity tourism, (sorry but your posts reek smugness) expecting her partner to pick up the slack, while at the same time not wanting him to take any annual leave either.

If I went off volunteering for someone more worthy of my time than my impressionable and vulnerable three year old, knowing that my partner wasn't going to be able to care for her, then I'd be blooming grateful for whoever stepped in to provide free childcare and not be so entitled as to rage that they dared to share their belief system (which presumably brings them great comfort) with their precious granddaughter.

2kids2dogsnosense · 14/08/2016 23:54

pennypurple is right - Jesus didn't make judgements about people's sexuality other than to say "If you are married don't put it about - stay faithful to your spouse and treat them kindly."

Jesus said a hell of a lot (if you will pardon the expression) about money and power. And he said it in an age and a culture where men had the money and power over women and children. Jesus' whole ethos was around making that balance a fairer one. Christianity was derided as being the "religion of women and slaves" because Christ valued and spoke up for these oppressed groups.

Your MIL sounds very fundamentalist. Personally I'd be more concerned that she was claiming the world was only 6,000 years old! I'm (as I've mentioned in previous posts) a practising Anglican. I don't believe that the world is "new", and I certainly don't believe that we should make judgements about people's sexual morals (though I admit that I don't like promiscuity as I think it is demeaning to both people involved). However I don't consider having a child without being married a promiscuous act.

I wouldn't object to someone telling my child something I could counter-argue about. I would be furious if someone told my child (or any child) that their mother was a "whore" - that is disgusting.

dancetilldawn · 14/08/2016 23:55

Everyone has their own beliefs and I've never been one to hoist my views on others, however on threads like this people are very forthright in getting their point across, so here goes.
I believe in God, to me God is love and love is God. Through Him all things are possible. Jesus said "I am the light of the world, whoever follows me will never walk in darkness.....Everything we are is because of Him.
Without God our lives would be empty and meaningless, lackng our ability to love, to nurture, to feel compassion and joy and sorrow. Why would we have all that, if there wasn't God and we came about by chance, we have souls, we have the ability to create great works of art, poetry, music. architecture. We constantly try to better ourselves. Why would we have all those emotions and then just die. Our souls never die...
The evidence of him is everywhere. He is the sun, the moon, the stars, the oceans, the rivers, he is everywhere, he lights up the world.
Our lives would be bleak without Him.
That is how I feel.
I'm now going to hide this thread before everyone piles in to tear my post to bits.

dollydoesdalaman · 15/08/2016 00:08

I mean, if I went away for a week, whether on holiday or volunteering, it makes no difference, I'd want whoever looked after the three year old, to make sure that they were giving them a lovely time, to make up for the fact that mummy was away.

I wouldn't be coming home saying "you said WHAT" how very dare you, but I'd actually be grateful that someone wanted to provide her with some loving care, rather than putting stipulations on what they should and should not say.

If I felt really worried that my dad (who isn't the same religion as I am and feels quite strongly that mine is wrong) might say something which could cause my child to believe something profoundly different to me, which could cause extreme anxiety (oh noes she believes in God and Jesus, help help) then perhaps I'd revise my opinion on whether or not it was sensible to go.

You can't have your cake and eat it OP. You can't disappear for a week, then tell your MIL off, because she told your daughter to give thanks you came back safely. Rightly, or wrongly, perhaps your MIL was actually concerned for your safety? If you chose to go away without your 3 year old, then you have to cede control to those adults who are looking after her, even if they do let her eat chocolate biscuits in bed, or whatever bad habits they have you don't like.

HeCantBeSerious · 15/08/2016 00:11

That is how I feel.

Which is absolutely fine. Whatever gets you through the night.

As long as you don't start trying to indoctrinate others who don't feel the same way you do. (Much of what you've professed to be the work of whichever god of the hundreds you believe in actually has scientific principles attached which make more sense.)

catkind · 15/08/2016 00:14

dolly, if you read OP's posts, the MIL inflicted herself as childcare, OP had made other arrangements. And was being lectured about Jesus having a great time for a 3 yr old? Probably not.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread