Baby left in car

[MooPointCowsOpinion]

On my way back to our car, My husband noticed a baby in the car parked next to ours. Alone, two front windows were slightly open, he looked about 12 months. We fretted a bit, stayed sat next to him waiting for 10 minutes and no-one came. So I called the police on 101, and they immediately put me through to 999.

The woman arrived back at her car a minute before the police did. I told her I'd called the police, and she couldn't leave her baby like that. She cried and said she was having a shit day and needed to get the item she' bought (big and bulky box, maybe a buggy?) to the car. I hugged her, cried with her, and said I understood but she still can't do that, and then directed the police to her and left.

Was I being a busy body? AIBU to think it's illegal to do that?

I Am not going to debate with someone who resorts to shouting. Bye.

Exactly, I think they are being quite awkward, and her logic and statistics will not wash with emergency services!

And we also attempt to minimise cumulative risk. So a risk that is unnecessary and easily avoided should be avoided - the point about driving is that to get to one place to another, avoiding driving has very high levels of difficultly, whereas picking up your child and carrying them around has relatively lower levels. Just because I accept one higher risk doesn't mean I'm doomed to accept all risks that are the same level: driving is more dangerous than flying in an airplane, but I wouldn't be happy if the airlines decided to dispense with safety measures until the risks were equalised, arguing that I'd get in a car with that risk, why not fly with them? I want to limit my overall risk, so I will accept some higher risks and minimise everything I can.

Yes, children can get injured on trampolines. However, that is usually when people have ignored safety measures about number of children on the trampoline or playing the trampoline in a safe area
A child supervised on a trampoline with safety measures adhered to is not going to be killed.
A baby left for more than 10 minutes in a car in warm weather can become ill or die.

If everyone left their baby in a car regularly then we would have deaths reported. We don't because people don't take that risk or because a member of the public intervenes.

In this case, the OP followed advice given out by doctors and emergency services and called the police because she waited long enough for the mother to return having no idea how long the baby had been there.
OP asked aibu to have done that...and the answer is NO she was not unreasonable.
So you can shove your risk assessments and statistics up your arse because they are irrelevant in this scenario.

This is such an emotive topic, I think Freedom is getting people deliberately wound up, she is pushing the right buttons. Op followed the given advice, and it was classed as an emergency by people trained to risk assess so there you go!

So a risk that is unnecessary and easily avoided should be avoided

But most people don't avoid most uneccessary risks do they?

Aeroflot agreed re Freedom. Yesterday she said she gave up on this, shame she hasn't!

I know, wish she would just go away, good thing most people agree that it is wrong to leave babies and young children in cars, espciall in the warmer months.

Aeroflotgirl that's because we're all mentally 10, including the emergency services.

The fact is if you saw a dog in that situation you'd intervene, nobody would hesitate - I hope - I place a child's life higher than a dogs so on that basis it's a no brainier for anyone with a brain !!

There is another thread currently running, same scenario, all the posters are calling the OP an interfering busybody. Interesting difference.

Do you have a link to it bite ? Very interesting!

bitemy - actually, I avoid tons of unnecessary risks! I use a carseat as opposed to not, I put on my own seatbelt, I cross at cross walks with the green man (yes, not everyone does this), I refrigerate meat and foods that can go bad, I don't eat undercooked meat, I'm very careful with rice, I vaccinate my child and myself, I keep my cleaning products locked away in a child-safe cupboard, I don't leave knives lying about on the floor, I wear safety equipment in laboratories, I don't drink and drive, I don't do drugs, I drink water from my tap not random pools on the street, and so on. Everyone's everyday life includes massive amounts of avoiding unnecessary risk. Ranging from the incredibly obvious, like not stepping blindly into motorway traffic, to the more considered, like how the dental technicians step out of the room when giving you an X-ray.

There is also unnecessary risk that is not avoided by individuals (some people jaywalk), but on the whole it comes down to balancing on each choice. freedom was trying to argue that if a higher risk was accepted, something with a lower risk should be too. Most everyone else is arguing that leaving a child in a car for an extended period tips the scale such that most people will consider the avoiding of that risk to be of low enough effort it is one that should be avoided.

I'd argue that most people do avoid most unnecessary risks, as our society is set up that way. Most of them we don't even think about as that's 'daily life' - things like centralised provision of drinking water - and where we end up arguing is those on the edges where it's not so automatic.

Imagine if something had happened to her whilst she was gone and nobody knew the poor baby was in the car

Which is probably more likely than something happening to the child. Which is why you don't leave a small child anywhere until they can at least talk and say "my mummy has gone and not come back", never mind look after themselves.

On a similar thread (although on that one I think the OP was talking about leaving the baby while getting a parking ticket, so moments only) a poster said that if the mother was hit by a car and killed, it would be better if the baby was with her (and likely killed or injured too) than in the car alone, and uninjured.

I thought I must have misunderstood so checked, and she did mean exactly that. Its weird how other people can look at things.

It certainly is emotive. I admit I'm quite an anxious mum and leaving ds in the car out of sight would result in too much anxiety. Much better to bring him with me. I don't even like unloading the car from the drive with him in the car even though he can see me and it's about 3m away
In my mind , and I'll admit I'm anxious, out of sight or out of reach means I'm not able to respond if something happens. And that's my job as mum - to be there and make sure nothing happens to him.

And random shit does happen. About three years ago I was hit by lightning. Million to one chance right? absolutely nothing to worry about. But still happened. Bad stuff happens. Kids choke, or fit, or get scared, or overheat, or wriggle out of the seat. On a recent car journey ds managed to wriggle into a position where the seat belt holding the seat on was cutting off the circulation in his leg. Kids are disaster magnets you take your eyes off them for a second and Stuff Happens.
So no. I never leave mine in the car. Ever.

I certainly left mine in the car occasionally for brief minutes when it was not summer and they were fast asleep. Or when they were older and happy to be left. My risk assessment was that they were far more likely to be run over on the forecourt/car park than anything happen to them in the car.

I totally agree though about not leaving them if it is even slightly warm, and never for more than five minutes in any event.

FreedomIsinPeril you're clearly an idiot if you're trying in any way, shape or form to justify leaving a small child in a car in 39 degree heat just because a child hasn't died YET!! 😠

bitemyshinymetalass is that the one where the OP took pictures of the car and number plate but the mum came back and she was wondering if she should contact the police?
The difference between this thread and that is that in this one the OP called the police before the adult returned, not after.

yeah that one. I don't think that really made the difference to the reponses.

If this was Louisiana the boys in blue would have shot the baby first, then yelled "freeze and down on your kneezz, NO FREEZE!" Then shot the mother, then you and most likely the store staff.

You did the right thing, but when in the US of A just run.

Oh dear, Freedom, you are really confused about this. The overall rate of child fatality in cars is obviously affected by the climate and car culture of a country. Hotter climate, more hot days, more car use, more kids left in cars = more overall deaths.

However, that doesn't mean that under the same circumstances a child left in a car in the sun in say 25 degree heat is more likely to die in the US than in the UK. British children are not inherently more resilient to heat than American children, and the laws of physics do not operate differently here. Recall that this is relatively uncommon even in hot countries with greater car culture.

The OP rightly looked at the individual risk to the individual baby in the circumstances, rightly assessing the situation that it was a warm day, etc etc and with the unknown of when the parent might return (so in her risk assessment she could not adjust for time spent in the hot car) and acted accordingly.

Saying 'no babies have died in cars because of heat in the UK so this baby is totally safe from heat-related illness and I should ignore' would be a warped approach.

Setting public policy for the UK similar to eh Florida's on the amount of time a child can spend unattended in a car would be a poor and OTT response to the overall risk. But acting on an individual case where the likelihood of harm was already raised (unattended baby for 10+ minutes, hot day), not acting in an individual case would be quite stupid.

You were not being a busybody and did exactly the right thing. I would have done the same in your situation. The mum should not have left her child unattended; it's as simple as that. Children's welfare is the most important priority as it cannot protect itself whilst an adult can - at least to a large extent. As a social worker I see the mum's behaviour as inexcusable.

Got to be honest I have a similar dilemma most days when I get home my neighbours have their grandchildren asleep in the car and I've known them to be left an hour but they say they're always checking now the other day the baby was crying for at least 10 mins and it was only when I knocked the grand parents came out but they just tell u to mind your own business so I don't know whether to tell the police as its a daily occurance! Op in my opinion u did the right thing

OP if you had done nothing, and read in the papers the next day that this very baby had been perished, you would have blamed yourself for not intervening. I can imagine it feels a bit rubbish that this mum was having a hard time of it, but no matter how though your day has been leaving your child in a car in mid July is a risk too far. You did the right thing, And even though in her state the mum was obviously not very thankful to you, well a bit of perspective will show her you were possibly gunna save her from a bigger cross to bear! Nobody wants a child's death on their conscience. Maybe next time she will think twice as a result of you stepping in .