Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Baby left in car

329 replies

MooPointCowsOpinion · 28/07/2016 12:19

On my way back to our car, My husband noticed a baby in the car parked next to ours. Alone, two front windows were slightly open, he looked about 12 months. We fretted a bit, stayed sat next to him waiting for 10 minutes and no-one came. So I called the police on 101, and they immediately put me through to 999.

The woman arrived back at her car a minute before the police did. I told her I'd called the police, and she couldn't leave her baby like that. She cried and said she was having a shit day and needed to get the item she' bought (big and bulky box, maybe a buggy?) to the car. I hugged her, cried with her, and said I understood but she still can't do that, and then directed the police to her and left.

Was I being a busy body? AIBU to think it's illegal to do that?

OP posts:
Thomasisintraining · 29/07/2016 05:53

OP you absolutely did the right thing.

It is impossible, where you arrive to the scene of a car with an infant in it, to know how long the infant has been there and how long more the parent is going to be. While the petrol station forecourt battle rages on (I personally see them as a different scenario, as for the most part the forecourt has a shop window looking out onto pumps and unless there is a massive queue paying for petrol rarely takes more than 5 minutes) I am not sure that massively large numbers of people do leave their children in cars at a shopping centre in the manner the OP describes to be determining reliable statistics based on Britain alone.

Also I really do not see what Freedom is actually advocating doing in their posts, all this talk about logic and risk (both areas I lecture on too as a traffic engineer) but what exactly do you think a person should do in the OPs scenario. Most people don't have unspecified amounts of time to hang around to wait for people who have made an idiotic choice to finish their shopping. Also the realisation that people can and do call the police and the fact that the police are likely to document the scenario may stop the person from making the same choice again. This is why calling the police is a worthwhile and dare I say logical thing to do.

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 07:43

Fuck statistics, that's not going to help a baby being overheated in a car! For all op knew she could have been halftime an hour an hour who knows! Op was the responsible adult there at the time and she did the right thing! We all have shit days, I have depression,anxiety,panic attacks, but that does not negate your responsibility as a parent!

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 07:45

Thomas I totally agree, baby coukd have been there for some time, not just left recently. She waited 10 mins fgs! Ignore the others,, op you acted totally responsibly.

Cinnamon2013 · 29/07/2016 07:51

OP - you did the right thing.

Freedom - your logic is busted. See also: global warming. Unprecedented high temperatures this year. Something not having happened/happened much is no safe indication that it will not happen.

murmuration · 29/07/2016 08:25

OP, you did the right thing. After reading that Washington Post article, the only reason I'd leave my baby in the car would be because I had forgotten. Which, on a hot day, would mean dead baby - and I would be so, so grateful you had called and saved me that trajedy.

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 08:44

I dont understand some people's erm 'logic'. Op rightly phoned 101, the controller classed it as an emergency and put her through to 999. Even on non sunny days the heat in a car can kill, there was no indication of how long the baby had already been left and what time the mother was due back!

Gottagetmoving · 29/07/2016 09:19

Whether there is a big risk or a teeny risk , it's a risk. To ignore a risk is a gamble, whatever the odds.
It's up to you to take that gamble or not.
I would think if it is your baby, who has no choice, and is helpless in that situation that will be the victim of your gamble, then you would be irresponsible to take the chance.
Yes, we all take a risk travelling in a car because we have to travel but hopefully we minimise the risks by following rules and being as responsible as we can.
We don't have to leave babies alone in a car when we shop.
Meanwhile, keep arguing about statistics and likelihood of it ever happening...because that is much more important isn't it?

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 09:57

I am pleased commonsense is prevailing on the latter part of this thread. There are lots of different factors at play here:

  1. Temperature, it has been very humid even without the sun, yesterday it was 22oc outside, it would have been hotter in a car.

  2. How long the baby has already been left in the car

  3. When the mother is due back

  4. Condition of the baby already. It might have been already overheating, babies cannot regulate their temperature properly yet.

All those factors present a massive risk, I appleaud op for doing the right thing, and potentially saving a babies life. Hopefully mother will have had a talk from the Police, it probably would have been logged, and next time she does that, they probably will contact SS.

FreedomIsInPeril · 29/07/2016 10:02

Freedom - your logic is busted. See also: global warming. Unprecedented high temperatures this year. Something not having happened/happened much is no safe indication that it will not happen

Thats not just apples and oranges, that apples and chimpanzee shit. Global warming was eminently predictable. Totally different thing.

Fuck statistics, that's not going to help a baby being overheated in a car

So.Much.Stupid. Statistics on whether its likely someone will overheat in a car have nothing at all to do with the likelihood of someone overheating in a car? What are they teaching you at school?

FreedomIsInPeril · 29/07/2016 10:03

And only a short whole ago a mum left her baby in a car on what was perhaps one of the hottest days of the year. The baby is fine

Exactly.

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 10:08

Freedom I am shocked at your responses, lucky the baby was fine in that case, it might not be nextime. Op called 101, they obviously classed it as an emergency and put it through to 999. Statistics is not going to help that one baby overheating in a car is it! Yes it can happen, so as parents you have to be responsible! As a community we have to be aware, if I were in op situation, I would have done the same thing!

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 10:09

Luck plays into that! Op would have been highly irresponsible walking away from that situation, knowing that the baby is at risk!

Tanith · 29/07/2016 10:16

Freedom yours was the third reply to this thread and you waited only a few more posts to start challenging people's logic. You're certainly not here to correct our understanding of logic, given the very few posts before yours.

Posters have already pointed out that the emergency services took it seriously and commented that it's not just overheating that makes it so dangerous.
The car could catch fire - and yes children have died in such fires in the UK - another vehicle could crash into the car, someone could steal the car or abduct the child.

I do risk assessments every day of my working life. Likelyhood of occurrence is just one part of that. If you knew anything about risk assessment, you'd know that consequence is equally important. The possible consequence of leaving a baby or young child in a car alone make it high enough risk to be avoided.

Op did absolutely the right thing and the emergency services agreed with her.

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 10:18

Here here Tanith, I think Freedom is deliberately being obtuse.

chemenger · 29/07/2016 10:25

The OP did the right thing. Quantitatitive risk analysis, based on probabilities, which some posters are very fond of, looks at combinations of minor events in order to calculate the probability of a major but very low probability event with a major consequence. As I said before a low probability event with a serious consequence can still be considered a significant risk. Probability is only part of the "equation" determining risk, the other factor is consequence. However, the reason risk is analysed is to identify ways of reducing it, usually by identifying opportunities for breaking the chain of minor events so that the major event cannot happen. Clearly, in this case, the first opportunity was not leaving the child in the car. The second was the OP acting as she did. Once a safety factor is identified (reporting babies in cars) it should always be done, in general. Statistics are an input into risk assessment, they are not the end of it. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

chemenger · 29/07/2016 10:26

Cross posted with Tanith, are you listening Freedom?

FreedomIsInPeril · 29/07/2016 10:34

Are you?
People leave children in cars all the time. Every day. To pay for petrol, to pop into shop, at school pick up, while running into the house. Every day, all over the place, thousands and thousands of babies and small children in cars. And what happens to them? Nothing. Nothing at all. Is it possible for bad things to happen? Sure it is.
Meanwhile, all of you so sanctimonious about how you would never do such a thing are merrily going around doing other things with your children, may of which can cause injury and death and harm, and not even noticing how risky they can be.
I could come along and say: you did what? You let your child on the trampoline? Do you know how many children break limbs on those? OR bouncy castles, children die on bouncy castles you know, what are you thinking of putting a kid on one of those? Highchairs, way more dangerous to babies than being left in the car for 10 mins. So are stairs, baby walkers, blind cords, a thousand other things.
But all your waffle replies about consequence and risks only apply to things you have decided are not ok, and not to the things you think are fine.

You can't rate risk by what is culturally acceptable, its idiotic.

mumandgran61 · 29/07/2016 10:41

You're not going to change your mind freedom so no point arguing with you. I'm just glad you don't do risk assessments where I work.

chemenger · 29/07/2016 10:44

Freedom the actual instance being discussed is not one of being left for a very short time in any of the situations you describe. The child had been left for at least ten minutes (assuming the parent had left the instant before the OP arrived). I actually don't believe that people leave children unattended for more than a very few minutes in the scenarios you describe on a regular basis. If you knew anything at all about risk assessment you would know that each risk is assessed on its own merits, the fact that we accept other risks does not mean we should accept this one. One of the basic points of risk assessment is, in fact that acceptability and perception of risk are culturally based. Why do you think acceptable risk from a nuclear power plant is an order of magnitude lower than from a coal powered plant? Why do we accept higher risks from road travel than rail?

FreedomIsInPeril · 29/07/2016 10:44

I hope you don't do them anywhere, if you base them on what other people tell you is ok rather than on actual risk.

FreedomIsInPeril · 29/07/2016 10:46

If you knew anything at all about risk assessment you would know that each risk is assessed on its own merits

I've said that several times

the fact that we accept other risks does not mean we should accept this one

No, the fact that we happily accept much higher, avoidable risks means that we need to put this one in its correct place, and not be so hysterical about it WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT.

FreedomIsInPeril · 29/07/2016 10:46

If you knew anything at all about risk assessment you would know that each risk is assessed on its own merits

I've said that several times

the fact that we accept other risks does not mean we should accept this one

No, the fact that we happily accept much higher, avoidable risks means that we need to put this one in its correct place, and not be so hysterical about it WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT.

dizzyfucker · 29/07/2016 11:01

FreedomIsInPeril no one is talking about other risks on this thread people are talking about the danger of leaving a baby in a car on a hot day. If a baby is in the car for long enough there will be only one outcome. If the child is rescued in time they will be safe. That's why phoning the police is the right thing to do.

If a child goes on a trampoline or a bouncy castle there is no gaurenteed outcome, so going up to someone and saying some children die on trampolines is not the same scenario at all and as you said yourself it's like apples and chimpanzee shit.

Aeroflotgirl · 29/07/2016 11:09

Freedom this is a high avoidable risk!