to think this is sexual harassment not "an equal opportunities issue"?

[SwissWank]

If I am expecting a vulva and in a private room am met with a penis...

I don't have to touch your penis, surely?

www.buzzfeed.com/lanesainty/trans-woman-brazilian-wax?utm_term=.wn9yL7dKK#.aoLOxVqZZ

If you change a word to mean something that only you or very few people understand instead of its generally accepted meaning, language falls apart.

And it's no longer just a small minority using the word "woman" to describe a self-identifying trans-woman. The BBC and many other media outlets have already adapted use of the word.

What this story and the fact that even Buzzfeed comments are "wtf?" Shows is that the world actually knows and understands that TW aren't women. It's been thought of as kind to pretend, but increasingly when people point out the issues this leads to, more and more people are on the "transphobic" side of reality.

venus the prefix term "cis" has been allocated by portions of society to describe biological women whose gender aligns with their biological sex (or gender assigned at birth ). Many women who fall into that category do not like the term and wish to retain the "traditional" definition of the word "woman".

It's word play. But scary, because the definition of those words play a role in whether or not people born with vulvas are safe. If society is hell bent on this course of action, I'll happily accept using a public toilet or changing room labelled "cis-woman" if that's what it takes.

but Time, that's appropriation of another person's identity, you cannot do that. The world was horrified by Rachel Dolezal but somehow accepts the appropriation of women.

Brandon

"Twat"

Or no twat, as it turns out

The world was horrified by Rachel Dolezal but somehow accepts the appropriation of women.

I know - it's a sad indictment of the status of women in society, really.
We're no longer seen as 'disadvantaged' or 'minority' so are no longer protected.

No, Time for a NN, cis doesn't map across like that. And it can fuck off. I'll stick to being a woman thanks. And resist this shit.

However, if people like us , who want to stick with the current/former meaning of the words "woman", "black", or "cat" become the minority, then the meaning of the words will change

I really don't think we ever would be in the minority, it's just that transactivists are loud and sensible people the rest of us are few because these issues and conversations are not in the mainstream. MN is one of very very few spaces we can have gender critical discussions without being called bigots I hope that never changes

We're really not in the minority in thinking that woman is whatever the hell you think it is. Just that most people don't give it all that much thought.

Is not whatever you think it is

It's not just about numbers though, is it? It's the status and influence of those using the "new" definition.

If respected media outlets have "redefined" the word woman, and Government reports include transwomen when referring to "women" then the word has, effectively, been redefined.

But in reality that's not going to do trans women any good. Very few people really think they're women like a woman is a woman. Especially virtue signalling leftie men, who tend to shut up or be outraged the minute it's pointed out to them that means they should be prepared to have sex with a trans woman.

No, which is why people like Karen are driven to make their point in the way she has. On the one hand, she is described as 'a woman' but on the other hand, there are very good reasons why she can't always be treated like one.
It's not surprising that activists are continuing to challenge us as a society - we really need to stop pussyfooting around and commit one way or another - are we redefining the word or not?

Karen really isn't Rosa Parks. More of an opportunistic dick. Literally.

And please, let's have a bit more concern for the shitty position the beauty therapist was put in.

Yes Venus

I said on the FWR thread that despite never having had or wanted a "Brazilian" if I were in Australia I would book this salon for perhaps a tidy up and give it a 5 star review.

The last thing TAs want is open and transparent discourse on what the word "woman" means because they would lose.

They want to bully with sound bites like "TW are women" and tell you to die in a fire if you dare object.

Sadly venus I believe that what the therapist was subjected to is only the first of many.
I am certain that women will be harmed and killed as a consequence of societies unwillingness to address this issue.

I agree Time. It makes me so frustrated and angry that people either don't see that, or don't care all that much.

But I do agree with Hermione that an open discourse would be beneficial to women as keeping it as a fringe issue means people are not aware of what is going on with the trans lobby.

Genuine question, just a thought-

If you were single, and then met the most charismatic man, and decided that you'd like to sleep with him that night, do you think you have the right to know whether they have penis or a vagina, before it's staring by you in the face, or not? I think you do.

There is far more to sexuality and sexual attraction than someone's genitalia, but it is the primary sexual characteristic that defines whether you are a man or a woman.

I'm bisexual, but if I came home with a 'man' who I then discovered was biologically female, I wouldn't carry on and just think, "I'm bi, I can work with that".
I'd feel deceived, and totally vulnerable and furious to have been led into a situation unprepared for what was happening.

A similar thing has happened to this beautcian. She's not qualified to work with male genitalia. She was not expecting to see male genitalia when performing a women's beauty treatment.

If you were single, and then met the most charismatic man, and decided that you'd like to sleep with him that night, do you think you have the right to know whether they have penis or a vagina, before it's staring by you in the face, or not? I think you do.

Yes, if a transwoman went home with a 'red blooded male' and when they got to it the bloke discovered the meat and two veg and said 'urgh, WTAF' and ran a mile, do we think the transwoman would run after him bleating about his 'female penis'? It only seems to be lesbians who are supposed to want to shag transwomen, with all the guff about the cotton ceiling etc.

Yoda

That's exactly what happened with the Gwent Aurujo murder, Brandon.

M2F pre-op Gwen had sex with an unsuspecting straight man, who believed she was a woman.
When he and his friends found out she was still a man, Gwen was beaten to death.
While this was obviously dreadful, it only happened because a person's right to consent was totally denied them, by someone misrepresenting themselves.
If someone wants to sleep with someone of their own sex, they'll do so.

If someone trains to work on someone of one particular sex, that is who they expect to see.

When 'Karen' phones a female salon, for a female treatment, named after women's swimwear, they have no right to be offended when someone does a double take at the fact Karen has a cock and balls!