To think my childrens school is not thinking of the working parent. To the detriment of the child?

[SayHelloToYourNewLUHuvahh]

At the end of every term and half term, so every 6 weeks, the school has a 'parents open afternoon' so the school opens its gates at 2.30pm and you can go and see their work at 2.45.

School would usually finish at 3.15.

My kids get picked up by a childminder who has several other children to pick up.

I got all my children's work home today and in bother their learning journals was a photo of them (separate classes, separate year groups) in their class with their work laid out in front of them, next to all their friends and all their friends parents looking at their friends work and them say there with an empty space.

It makes my stomach turn with guilt just typing that.

I asked a friend to look through my boys work as she passed just so someone looked, but she has 2 kids of her own so I doubt she'd have had min chance and it's not really the point.

Am I being precious?

I agree at 2.45 it doesn't make sense but ds school does it first thing so it is much easier

I think that the point is, where schools only have these kinds of events during the middle of the day, it really does disadvantage the same kids over and over again.

It isn't the child's fault that they don't have a SAHP. Yet they get to feel left out several times a year.

Having a mix of times is much more helpful for the parents, and therefore kids. There will never be a time that suits everybody, but there can be some variation to make sure that the same kids aren't left out each and every time.

Personally, it does sound like an OFSTED ticking exercise, and a waste of time. I'd rather my kid was learning or even just out in the playground with friends.

It gives parents and grandparents the chance to come into the school. So maybe if you work full time you can't go to every one and every event, and your children will understand that.

But maybe, just maybe, once or twice you can get that half day and go. or a grandparent or aunt/uncle could, or a partner.

For OP, remember its not just about you.

What if there are no grandparents or aunts/ uncles?

Or is that just another way to make DC like mine feel less important?! Schools shouldn't assume all children have extended families, in the same way as they shouldn't assume a parent can always attend daytime events.

I asked a couple of times to come and see my DCs work during primary. I was told to come in anytime. Between 9 and 3.15 that is...

I really dont think schools have thought this through at all. I naively assumed a parent could get a day off, I didnt realise how hard this was for teachers. So the fact that its teachers saying come in between 9 and 3 is just ridiculous, if anyone would know the difficulty involved surely they would. Although this idea might not come from the teachers themselves of course.

Schools really need to buck up their ideas.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. Also, it's going to be hard enough taking enough time off to cover all the holidays without having to take afternoons off for all the things in term time.

ssd Schools really need to buck up their ideas.

What would you like them to do to engage parents?

I would love to hear the solution that suits all parents...

icklekid we're not saying that there's a solution for ALL of the parents - but having an inflexible schedule which ALWAYS and ONLY affects one sector negatively really isn't "fair". In fact, making one section of a group always miss out is pretty much the definition of discrimination.

I'm a teacher in secondary. We NEVER get to do things during the day, and ALWAYS have to do them in the evenings (and vary the times from straight after school until as late as 9) in order to accommodate parents. And for things like seeing reports, conferences etc, if a parent can't make the time scheduled, we arrange another time.

If one part of the teaching community can be flexible and inclusive, why can't this school? Why are they setting things up on the assumption that mum is there (and they do assume mum) to pop in when it suits them? It's so unfair on kids who don't have that kind of family, and so judgemental of the school to make it 'the norm'.

In the last 3 weeks of term, there has been sports day 9.30 - 11am, (this was cancelled 20 minutes before due to rain and rescheduled for 2 days later), open 'evening' 3.30 - 5.30pm, End of year concert - 10 -11am, Parents 'evening' 3.30-6pm.

I find it all ridiculous, I work an hours (minimum) commute from the school, full time, There is zero consideration given to me by the school. I just cannot believe that in 2016, this is still such a huge issue. I find it very unfair, if my work weren't so flexible I'd have no hope of attending all of that.

Id like them to have all dates set out for the year. So we can choose and plan.
A variety of times to allow more people to join in.

This is the sort of thing that upsets me. My son was in a special assembly. Asked on the Wednesday for Friday. I couldn't get time off at that short notice so they agreed to do it the next week. Arranged time off. On the morning they decided not to do it that day. Told me that it would be the following week. I was working so asked if it could be put back again. No it was the last if those assemblies that year. Again working so I couldn't come ( it's very expected that you attend). Award given that week. They then decided it wasn't the last of those assemblies that year and had another if that type the week after. When I was off and could attend.

That's the sort of organisation that irritates.

That's very aggravating headoftthehive55. I'm dreading that sort of thing at school from September. Already had things at pre-school booked in at start of year (diarised and leave booked for) which are then moved a week or two before the date as "lots of parents can't do that" or other reasons best known to the nursery. All communicated by text message.

Teachers are working parents too. I used to miss most of my children's assemblies, sports days, plays and parents' consultations because they were nearly all in the daytime. Anything fundraising was held in the evening/weekend.

What would you like them to do to engage parents?

All the schools around here have PTOs or the equivalent. All publish an all school directory annually. The directory includes names and school e-mail addresses of all the teachers and principles, and a guarantee that anyone needing a response will receive one within 24 hours of the call. The directory also includes names and phone numbers and e-mail addresses for the school board members. Also in the directory are all the children in the school, grouped by class and also by family, with address and phone number and email address. You would be surprised how far this goes towards creating a sense of community in schools, and the guarantee of a prompt response to a call helps parents feel confident that the schools and parents are partners in the educational enterprise.

The other nonsense as described here ('parents' open afternoons', sports days and the like) is rightly seen as a pain in the butt for working parents and a waste of time as far as communication goes, by schools where I am. The only event that parents are urged to attend is parent teacher conferences. Parents are encouraged to get involved at primary level as room parents, as chaperones for field trips, school library helpers, and in fundraising events. Parents also volunteer in RC schools as sports coaches for school teams - cross country running, basketball, soccer, and volleyball.

Parent teacher meetings are still scheduled for a few evenings in October or November, but most of the communication that is necessary happens by phone or email contact. Teachers tend to be very proactive.

There is also an annual calendar of events available on each school's website that is adhered to unless schools shut for extreme snow conditions. Anything else - like concocting events (like a special assembly) or changing dates with short notice apart from weather related cancellations - would be seen as completely disrespectful of parents' time and also disrespectful of teachers' time since they often have to arrange childcare in order to be in school for an evening event.

There is lots more, but as a starting point, being respectful of people's time is pretty solid.

I haven't rtft yet but really? Every half term? My schools did parents' evenings once a year as far as I can remember. And they were in the evening. They started at close of school so sahp would want those appointments so they could do pick up and meetings at the same time, and ran into the evening when the working parents would make it.

Unfortunately in secondary school the child had to book the appointments by filling in a little schedule so the parents where at the mercy of our organisational skills.

mathanxiety yes excellent.

mathanxiety I'm amazed- your school gives address & phone numbers and email addresses of all kids in the school to everybody? Data protection issues much?

And what about those people who don't want that? They then get left out and seem weird cos they're not in the directory. Due to my DH job I absolutely would not want whole school to have these details- how does that promote community?

In answer to OP, YANBU. I used to teach, and could never get to DC stuff at school. We were not allowed to rearrange PPA, and couldn't 'just take annual leave'
My kids' school do lots of these - in the last half term, if I'd been working (which I'm now not) I'd have had to take 6 whole days off to get to all the things I'd been invited to at school (3 kids).

Fortunately, the staff accept that not all parents can be there, so people don't feel left out. When I can get to things, if my DCs friends don't have a parent there, I include them in what we're doing.
But still can't get over school giving out personal details of all kids!

MathAnx is in USA, not UK or EU.

I'm also in the US and have a very similar set up to Mathanxiety - except that there were also loads of day time events in primary school which drove me nuts - they did give a fair bit of notice though.

The school directory is fairly standard in US schools. You have to opt in - as in give permission to print what details you want. I know some people in the community didn't give personal details so my daugher's best friend was the child of a policeman - he didn't appear in the directory but her mother's deatils did. but it was all a bit moot anyway. Everyone knew where they lived. We all live in the same small enough city and in a particular area of that city. You'd see the police car parked outside their home.

Public schools in the US are generally considered a big part of the community, completely central to the town experience - everyone comes from a very defined catchment (the town/one part of the city etc). High school games would be attended by people who don't have kids playing.

Private schools in the US try to recreate that sense of community and parents are happy to be part of that. They say that private school directories in NYC are worth their weight in gold :) My kids in Massachusetts have been in 4 different private schools. I could launch a pretty good business network based on the multiple school directories I have had over the years. In reality, no one uses them for anything other than making contact for children's or school stuff.

LongWeek, all the information was on an 'opt in' basis. The vast majority of parents opted in.

Parents/guardians could allow any or all of their contact information to be used. ExH used to allow his mobile number to be published. I allowed my name, address, home phone and email address to be included. A friend had her name, number and her parents' name, address, and her dad's mobile phone number (he was the only GP of the child who spoke English) as her DD spent the majority of time outside school with her GPs thanks to the mum's work hours. A neighbour whose DH was an FBI agent gave a PO box as a postal address but gave an e-mail address for the mum. Nobody gave non-inclusion a second thought. Life is too short to wonder why X family only gave a phone number and child's name, or didn't give a phone number.

Before the local TV stations got together a really organised system to announce weather-related closures of schools with a ticker tape along the bottom of the screen (due to blizzards or extreme heat/poor air quality warnings), the school relied on a phone tree to inform parents of a closure decision, all based on the directory.

YY to police being well known as we have a community policing policy here, with a neighbourhood officer living in each policing area of my municipal area. Those police officers with children in my DCs' school were well known and often came to the school in uniform complete with weapon to pick up their children - one used to be a room parent and was able to get all sorts of great access to the local fire station for kindergarten days out - and all their info was in the directory.

YY also to the honour code - nobody uses the directory for business purposes. It happened once in my experience, but the parent was ratted on and the school had a word.

It is a great community promoter, much better than the white pages or leaving parents to forge their own little networks based on cliques at the school gates, or develop networks centered around scouts or sports (all team rosters were shared and included contact details too). It eliminates the party invitation problem from school life (the school only allowed invitations to be distributed for all-class parties). It means people know the names of parents even if a child stays in the extended day room after school or goes home with a nanny or CM or relative and can make contact for socialising or lifts for children. Parents in the US do a huge amount of carpooling to parties and sports practices and events even at a young age, and sleepovers are very common, at least in my area; this is facilitated by having contact details at your fingertips.

The directory also had the daily bell schedule and the annual calendar listing all events, which set in advance. Another feature in my DCs' school directory was driving directions to all the other schools in the sports conferences and some parking and school gym entrance and playing field location details, all of which came in very handy.

The really important part of the school directory was the inclusion of the contact details for the teachers, principal and school board members, along with the 24 hour response guarantee. Teachers did not stand at the school door fielding parents inquiries or trying to conduct private conversations in a sea of people. If you said you were available to take a call from a teacher after 6 pm (for example) then a teacher would call you after 6. Yes, all of that could have been sent out on a couple of sheets of paper without any family information, but including school contact info along with parent contact information expressed the ideal of everybody being equal and equally approachable.

Our school publishes a termly list of dates for these things luckily. There are 2 or 3 a term. I do sympathise as it makes you feel terrible to miss them although my DC are fine if I explain to them I would love to come but can't.

In my experience though, most parents go to the class assemblies but not the other events. Only about 7 parents out of 30 attend the open days in DS class. This includes SAHM. I or DH usually run in and out because it feels like a box ticking exercise and sometimes feels the teachers find it an intrusion. Taking pictures etc as OP described seems too full on.

Kids sometimes get embarassed as they get older if you walk into class so don't tend to mind if you can't make it. I often went to their classes when they were in year 5 and 6 and was the only parent. Perhaps as more have gone back to work too.

People that say do everything in evenings, lots of people work shifts and have other children and no childcare. So a mix of both is fair.

I would ask for a list in advance each term and for them to.deal sensitively with those who cannot have a parent attend. But don't feel too bad as as long as you go to some (even just evening ones) the children will be fine. You could even ask another mum to take pics or a video if allowed or your DC.

(canyouforgiveher - I teach in a private school in the US. We have a printed directory, but have to be VERY careful about email lists so that one parent can't get hold of the entire list and use it for business purposes. Faculty are taught how to send out emails to lists of parents with everyone blind copied etc. Otherwise, some people do use the lists for their personal gain, rather than school business,)