DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

[EmmelineW]

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

I think OP's daughter's refusal to wear a bra is teenage rebellion & attention-seeking; she has her mum right where she wants her.

Bambam But does stroking your feet lead to orgasm or does it just feel nice?

Nipple stimulation activates the same region of the brain as clitoral, vaginal and cervical stimulation. Here’s the science behind that claim from the Journal of Sexual Medicine, Volume 8, 2011:

Breasts are Best: Can Women Orgasm from NippleStimulation? - | - Science of Relationships
www.scienceofrelationships.com/home/2011/12/16/breasts-are-best-can-women-orgasm-from-nipple-stimulation.html

Apologies if question has already been answered, its a long thread. Have the school said why she must wear a bra, what problem is it causing? Or are they just saying everyone has to be in the same uniform right down to the bra.

Its news to me that some people don't think breast are sexual organs, I can assure you that mine are, they are used to attract men, they are used in foreplay, they are used to stimulate both me and my DH probably more than my clitoris is. Breasts are probably second only to my mind when it comes to sex.

There are societies where women don't wear bras, or walk around topless quite often. They don't have higher rape levels.

If males can't look at parts of the female body without being able to control their reactions, the males have a problem which they need to fix.

We teach young people all sorts of things, how to eat, how to behave, how to read etc. Why does it seem so difficult to teach teenage boys NOT to perve over girls? Other countries manage it very well. Is there something about being a British male which means that boys cannot control themselves? Or could we think about teaching boys respect for their fellow humans? So much respect, that they can actually look at them without objectifying and sexualizing them?

Plonker - do fuck off, take your comments about my daughter with you.

Breasts are for feeding babies, and that's it

Vestal have you ever breastfed a baby? Do you know it is normal to feel sexually aroused during breastfeeding?

Sex and Breastfeeding: An Educational Perspective
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431754/

Nursing mothers may get turned on, too. Sexual arousal during breastfeeding is a common and confusing side effect. Many women enjoy breast stimulation in their sex lives far before they ever have a baby, and erogenous zones don't simply stop feeling good when touched.

It's important to note that the physical arousal a woman may feel is separate from anything emotional she feels towards her baby. Again, it's incredibly common, despite it being a taboo subject for obvious reasons

From everything you've said OP no one can see anything they shouldn't be your kids chest is under her shirt which is from John Lewis. FFS people it's hardly likely to be flimsy and transparent is it?! The head of year was made aware of her choice to be bra-less by the PE teacher and should have said wait out this lesson but please bring something just for PE next time. Instead they went batshit crazy. Ignore them. Go back in September however she is comfortable. Your kid has the right to bodily autonomy and the head of year can't enforce this craziness anyway.

Hang on a minute though, some women are turned on my moobs, they like a bigger guy, just because you don't, doesn't mean anyone else doesn't. Also, some men prefer bigger women, does that mean they should get a corset on? To make sure no man looks?

btw - sexual organ = a part of the reproductive process. ie, absolutely necessary to enable reproduction. People without breast tissue are able to become parents, therefore they are NOT a sexual organ. You may LOVE having your nipples sucked, but it doesn't make them sexual. You may just as much LOVE having your toes sucked, but neither one of them helps reproduction. Sperm from a penis needs to enter the vagina and fertilize an egg. Those are sexual organs.

Enjoyment of something as part of sex, and the ability to reproduce by using sexual organs are two completely different things.

Remember those Haagen Dazs adverts? No-one got pregnant from eating ice-cream.

Its news to me that some people don't think breast are sexual organs, I can assure you that mine are, they are used to attract men, they are used in foreplay, they are used to stimulate both me and my DH probably more than my clitoris is. Breasts are probably second only to my mind when it comes to sex

exactly.

Yes, their primary function is to feed the young. But don't kid yourself that breasts aren't sexual as well.
They are.

Have I hit a raw nerve, OP? Looks like it.....

OP - I also have a daughter who refuses to wear a bra. For her it's because of sensory issues, which are part of her disability. If school insisted that she wear a bra. they would actually be making her disability worse, so I would be very angry about it.

I'm a teacher, and I teach right in the age group of your DD. I would argue that so long as the body is covered between the armpits to the top of the legs, there is no problem (I don't have a problem with midriff either) for any student. If there's a genuine reason why a student can't do that, then I would say it's up to the rest of us to accommodate that (like kids with sensory issues not being able to tolerate certain clothing).

Of course you have. You're talking horribly about a 14 y/o, who happens to be my daughter.

I think some people are getting confused between sexy (ie appealing) and necessary for sexual reproduction.

Sexy is defined by society - remember that ankles were 'sexy' from hundreds of years ago until the mid 1900s.

Sexual reproduction - penis and vagina.

Incidentally, breasts have become more 'sexy' due to them being shown that way in the media (The Sun, bra adverts etc) and they didn't used to be. Perhaps it would be better for everyone if we stopped trying to make it shameful to show parts of our bodies and just got over the fact that people have body parts. For reasons of hygiene and protection, a certain amount of clothing is preferred, but otherwise, can we just get used to the idea that humans have bodies and parts of them don't conveniently disappear because someone else might look.

I think OP's daughter's refusal to wear a bra is teenage rebellion & attention-seeking; she has her mum right where she wants her.

Which concedes more to an attention-seeking teen:

1 "Fine, don't wear a bra. It's up to you. No big deal."

2 "You MUST wear a bra. You are suspended until you come back with your breasts strapped up appropriately."

I don't think that pointing out typical teenage behaviour eg rebellion is "talking horribly" about someone.

I can remember being that age just. We did ALL sorts of stuff. There was underage drinking, sexual experimentation, smoking, etc etc. Maybe not wearing a bra is your daughter's rebellion? It's hardly an offensive suggestion!

Really at the moment this is nothing more than ranting from both sides. The OP really needs to knowmWHY the school is insisting. It may be Victorian attitudes (albeit my own!) but perhaps there has been some complaints from parents or, you never know, perhaps the odd rain shower has turned the said blouse into something surmountable to a wet tee shirt contest ... And a million other things perhaps!?
OP I'm sure the school is contactable next week so if it were me
I'd be nicely yet reasonably enquiring what the issue is and take it from there

How on earth can not wearing a bra be rebellious?
It's a personal choice, and a perfectly acceptable one.

I was going to say exactly that Glad. Who is she rebelling against exactly? Not her parents, who aren't bothered. Not the school, who have only just noticed. The only thing she is rebelling against is ridiculous societal conventions of female clothing. Good for her.

I think some people are getting confused between sexy (ie appealing) and necessary for sexual reproduction

I think some people are getting confused between primary and secondary sexual organs.

Your point about breasts being made sex by the Sun is irrelevant to the physiological phenomenon that stimulation of breasts and nipples can in many women cause sexual stimulation to orgasm?

Are you aware the guilt some women feel about this because they don't understand it is just a physiological reaction puts them off breastfeeding?

The only thing she is rebelling against is ridiculous societal conventions of female clothing

Then why can't she do it out in the street or at home. I can see the school are in a difficult position because it will follow the norm ie societal conventions.

Having just read the whole thread,lots of different and valid opions, ....id be tempted to say to my daughter ,if we were in yr situation,....id be saying...important exams in next couple of years..that's why she's at school..is it worth annoying the school,getting excluded just for a bra...at the end of the day ,they make the rules..is it worth the disruption to her education the hassle of a fight with LEA and school.....she has her whole life to go bra less ...maybe just maybe with important exams looming ,now isn't the time to make a stand....just a thought X

Your point about breasts being made sex by the Sun is irrelevant to the physiological phenomenon that stimulation of breasts and nipples can in many women cause sexual stimulation to orgasm?

Ridiculous point. The stimulation of EARS can cause an orgasm in some people. Should we therefore be covering up our ears?

No one ever told me that I was rebellious at school for not wearing a bra over my 34C's. I'm sure they thought it none of their business what sort of underwear their students wore.
It strikes me as being rather unhealthy for teachers to interfere in such personal matters.
I'd be inclined not to appeal against the teacher's action but to raise a formal complaint about her unsavoury interference.

Since people seem to think female breasts should be hidden because some people enjoy having their nipples touched during sex ... you are aware that this also applies to men?

But men shamelessly flaunt their nipples.

The only thing female nipples can do that male nipples cannot is feeding babies. But that is somehow so dirty that it makes it necessary to cover them?

The cultures where women go topless are sometimes very strict about women having to cover their legs.
I wonder to what lengths they go to create the idea that female legs are somewhat more sexual than male legs.