DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

[EmmelineW]

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

as above - get it all in writing from the school. They have no case at all as there is no regulations on who has to to wear a bra and from what moment. Does the school have proof that a girl should wear a bra? Any studies on health and safety done? How will wearing a bra be enforced in the school and the rest of the area and indeed the country? What type of bra and why - has the school looked in to this? How will they check? It's a world world that the school will not want to enter into. Let your lawyer write this to the school. Let the school apologise to your daughter for the stress they have caused.

For all those that say the men and boys will feel awkward on a woman not wearing a bra - well it's their problem to rethink their attitude and not for the women to cover themselves up.

Okay, so I just googled this ...

www.healingcancernaturally.com/breast-cancer-bras-lymph-nodes.html

Yeah. It is not ethically justifiable to force a girl to wear a bra. Wear one if it makes you feel better, but don't try and force other women to do it.

Hopefully the advice would be to have a chat with the boy to remind him that it's inappropriate to stare at a woman's breasts, teacher or not, and that it is her prerogative as to whether she wears a bra or not.

One of my ds's teachers never seems to have a bra on (at school). She has quite an athletic figure (I occasionally run in the same event as her), and although she has quite ample (not massive) breasts, doesn't seem to need one. She wears dresses/shirts where you can sometimes see a slight protrusion of her nipples, but certainly nothing outrageous. My ds either hasn't noticed, or is (hopefully) mature enough to not mention it. And he will mention some things to me that I have to remind him are inappropriate so it's not like I think he's an angel!

so your DD has to keep reminding her 'friends' that she doesnt wear a bra so they dont tell others who will bully her.....thats pretty shit friendship tbh, is it poss the school have picked up on the fact that she has some pretty snide friends and were checking that she has got someone she can talk to about it?

WhereTheFuckIsMyFuckingCoat
Hopefully the advice would be to have a chat with the boy to remind him that it's inappropriate to stare at a woman's breasts,

Which boy are they going to tell? the OP hasn't mentioned any.

Only on MN do people think that teenage boys (who are full of raging hormones) won't take notice (and be distracted) at the sight of a girl running/doing PE with no bra on.

No one has said that they don't. It has been said that they shouldn't. Why should she have to change her underwear because teenage boys have been taught that a girls' breasts are there to be ogled over. It's their habits that need to change, not hers.

Boney I think that was in reply to SheSparkles' post

I was replying to SheSparkles, Jefferson, I should have tagged.

Muffy

It may well be, but a lot of posters are mentioning boys looking, or it disrupts their learning. None of this has come from the OP.

Only on MN do people think that teenage boys (who are full of raging hormones) won't take notice (and be distracted) at the sight of a girl running/doing PE with no bra on.

Oh, they might notice. But they can cope with it.

The idea that girls should cover themselves so that the males won't be "distracted" ... that's the mindset that leads to burquas.

teenage boys have been taught that a girls' breasts are there to be ogled over.

Nobody 'teaches' men to notice breasts. They just do. They always have and they always will.
I have teenage boys and I certainly never taught them to ogle breasts.
I know this isn't a very feminist thing to say, but I think that males are biologically hardwired to notice breasts. They can't not look at them.

When females became fully bipedal the breasts expanded in size, mimicking the patterns of the buttocks, thereby signaling to males and females alike her sexual availability when walking on two legs and standing upright

While the mammary glands contained in women's breasts exist for the feeding of infants, the fatty tissue that confers the magical curve of the human breast—the swell, sway, and jiggle—has nothing to do with milk production. Given the clear physiological costs of having pendulous breasts (back strain, loss of balance, difficulty running), if they aren't meant to advertise milk for babies, why did human females evolve and retain these cumbersome appendages?

Theories range from the belief that breasts serve as signaling devices announcing fertility and fat deposits sufficient to withstand the rigors of pregnancy and breastfeeding to "genital echo theory": females developed pendulous breasts around the time hominids began walking upright in order to provoke the excitation males formerly felt when gazing at the fatty deposits on the buttocks.

Theorists supporting genital echo theory have noted that swellings like those of chimpanzees and bonobos would interfere with locomotion in a bi-pedal primate, so when our distant ancestors began walking upright, they reason that some of the female's fertility signaling moved from the rear office, as it were, to the front showroom.

So whether we like it or not and even thought it's not fashionable to say so - breasts do have a dual purpose.

And they will be a distraction to males,when they should be concentrating on double maths instead

Nobody 'teaches' men to notice breasts. They just do. They always have and they always will.
I have teenage boys and I certainly never taught them to ogle breasts.
I know this isn't a very feminist thing to say, but I think that males are biologically hardwired to notice breasts. They can't not look at them.

I'm just at a loss at this point. If men are no better than animals, maybe they should stay home until they evolve. Or maybe we could give them a bit more credit than this.

"Can't not look", FFS.

Sorry but that "Healing Cancer Naturally" site looks complete bollocks.

Are you saying that you never ever look at anyone else's body in a sexual way, ever? You must be a saint.

You don't like what the school says, you go to another school.

Bigoldsupermum,

They can try not to look, but their teenage hormones will make them want to look.

If you come upon a beautiful landscape or work of art, then it's natural to want to look. Yes?
You can fight it and try not to. But some things are instinctive.

Breasts are attractive to a lot of males.
There's not a lot you can do about that FACT.

Whether it's right or wrong is neither here nor there.

I know my school had a 2 page uniform list and went into great detail about style, length, color, tightness etc of clothing and I could easily see a bra being added. I may be wrong here but if someone brought a lawyer in and started a fight with the school, can't the school just amend the uniform policy to clarify the issue.

Would everyone really like to have their type of bra dictated to by a school all because one girl wanted to be a rebel? (not trying to have a go at op).

Or another way around it would be to make it compulsory for all pupils to wear jumpers at all times. I know I wouldn't like to be the girl that forced the school to do that.

@Lass: Well, they do seem a bit overenthusiastic about bras being the only cause for breast cancer, but the parts about the lymph node system make sense.
I originally googled to research whether bras cause sagging, and I suppose the toxins that remain in the breast tissue instead of being flushed out by the lymphatic system would cause some sagging.

Are you saying that you never ever look at anyone else's body in a sexual way, ever? You must be a saint.

I don't particularly feel like a saint. Just a normal person, actually.

I agree, It's wrong to oggle, or drool, and men are not animals and should be able to control their feelings, but some posters seem to be under the illusion that boys shouldn't be noticing girls' breasts at all.
That's madness and it's going against biology and their hormones:

When females became fully bipedal the breasts expanded in size, mimicking the patterns of the buttocks, thereby signaling to males and females alike her sexual availability when walking on two legs and standing upright

How is she trying to be a rebel? She's trying to be comfortable. Bloody hell.

If you come upon a beautiful landscape or work of art, then it's natural to want to look. Yes?

So schools surrounded by beautiful landscapes should have no windows so that the pupils are not distracted by the landscape?
Do you really think that?

I don't know, I'd rather have a beautiful landscape to look at and be expected to exercise some self-control and concentrate on the lessons instead of being forced to sit in a grey room without windows or plants or pictures on the walls to eliminate distractions.

Besides, where do you get the idea that boys won't stare at breasts if they're inside a bra?
What you suggest is that girls should wear a burqua. Because otherwise, their breasts will be visible.

How is she trying to be a rebel? She's trying to be comfortable.

Women are not allowed to be comfortable in patriarchy. Choosing to be comfortable is rebellion.

Those who would like to disagree with that statement should think about just why they label the refusal to wear a bra "rebellion", when there's no indication that the girl meant to cause any conflict with school authorities.

EmmelineW, I only used rebel in the sense of someone standing out as different (irrelevant of reasons) from the other pupils.